West Ham away Sunday 30th Nov at 205pm

[Doc_Piptorious]

Well, he was in the stand...

Sneaking in eh?


Nice to see you in the open forum again

[BG1973]

I don't mind Salah starting the next game as long as we have someone other than Gakpo on the left. I think our problems occur when both start. Salah on the right? Fine. Fede on the left please Arne.

Even though he loses the ball repeatedly but doesn't do much if anything to help win it back? An issue in attack and defence.

He has been a massive part of the problem this season and shouldn't start games again.

Gakpo at least defends and helps on set pieces. Not good enough but not a complete hinderance.

[memzey]

I take your point and, perhaps, never starting Salah again might be a way to resolve that. No argument there.

Another way to look at it however, might be to consider the team and it's balance in the round. By this I mean, if we accept that we can afford one out of the three who is not expected to be a pressing/defensive monster, and is always going to attempt the same thing in attack then that leaves us with enough flexibility in the rest of the team to still be functional. This is much harder when we have "always cut inside and of little use in the press" on both wings.

If we start Salah on the right with either Wirtz or Fede on the left and he still throws our play out, then I think we are a lot closer to seeing the end of his time as a starter for us. He's definitely not the same player he was, no one argues that, it's just whether he's still good enough to contribute. We'll see.

[BigChief]

I take your point and, perhaps, never starting Salah again might be a way to resolve that. No argument there.

Another way to look at it however, might be to consider the team and it's balance in the round. By this I mean, if we accept that we can afford one out of the three who is not expected to be a pressing/defensive monster, and is always going to attempt the same thing in attack then that leaves us with enough flexibility in the rest of the team to still be functional. This is much harder when we have "always cut inside and of little use in the press" on both wings.

If we start Salah on the right with either Wirtz or Fede on the left and he still throws our play out, then I think we are a lot closer to seeing the end of his time as a starter for us. He's definitely not the same player he was, no one argues that, it's just whether he's still good enough to contribute. We'll see.

The presence of Salah as a non pressing/defending entity only makes sense if he is scaring the opposition with his offensive prowess. Becoming predictable like he has has dropped his XgXA by design (i.e. he's been sussed quite easily). Unless he can find a way around this (develop his right foot quickly and win us more corners rather than cutting in and exposing our defenders) then he's not simply a luxury. He's a non entity.

[memzey]

It does look that way when we have Gakpo on the other flank. I'd like to see how it looks when the oppos have a different type of problem to consider, as I say, in the round. It's all hypothetical at this stage but, to my mind, this may affect the type of ball he receives and the situation of the defence/defenders when he receives it.

[BG1973]

That's fair as well.. be nice for the left side to be providing cut back as he is exactly who you want on the end of them with his left foot.

We could do it too if Slot took the handbrake off.. must be a tactic not to let them fullbacks overlap. Gakpo can't be that much of an idiot to think cutting inside is always the best attacking option.

[Doc_Piptorious]

That's fair as well.. be nice for the left side to be providing cut back as he is exactly who you want on the end of them with his left foot.

We could do it too if Slot took the handbrake off.. must be a tactic not to let them fullbacks overlap. Gakpo can't be that much of an idiot to think cutting inside is always the best attacking option.

Don't think it is him being an idiot, more his preferred style of play as he does the same for the Netherlands and did the same for PSV.

He is fairly effective with it as well to be fair (4 goals and 3 assists in the league iwhilst being part of a mis firing team is a good return). Think where problems arise is when the other flank is trying to do the exact same and is bringing even less pace to the table.

Put a pacy Right sided attacker that cuts in or one that likes to hug the touchline and get crosses/cut backs into the box and then Gakpo and what he does would be fine imo (albeit with the caveat of him needing to be more aware of our players that overlap on the left ).

[memzey]

Don't think it is him being an idiot, more his preferred style of play as he does the same for the Netherlands and did the same for PSV.

He is fairly effective with it as well to be fair (4 goals and 3 assists in the league iwhilst being part of a mis firing team is a good return). Think where problems arise is when the other flank is trying to do the exact same and is bringing even less pace to the table.

Put a pacy Right sided attacker that cuts in or one that likes to hug the touchline and get crosses/cut backs into the box and then Gakpo and what he does would be fine imo (albeit with the caveat of him needing to be more aware of our players that overlap on the left ).

Yes, exactly this ^

It’s equally true when you swap the right sided attacker with left in that we might well get more from Salah in that situation. At least, that is my hypothesis.

None of this is to say that I have an issue with either player by the way. I rate both highly. Salah’s record speaks for itself and I consider Gakpo’s striking ability, with his right foot, to be truly elite. The problems occur when we play them both. It just doesn’t seem to work at all.

[baitman]

Yes, exactly this ^

It’s equally true when you swap the right sided attacker with left in that we might well get more from Salah in that situation. At least, that is my hypothesis.

None of this is to say that I have an issue with either player by the way. I rate both highly. Salah’s record speaks for itself and I consider Gakpo’s striking ability, with his right foot, to be truly elite. The problems occur when we play them both. It just doesn’t seem to work at all.

I have also suggested that this might be an option, and it would mean the number 9 and 10 would get better service rather than each winger just playing for themselves.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Yes, exactly this ^

It’s equally true when you swap the right sided attacker with left in that we might well get more from Salah in that situation. At least, that is my hypothesis.

None of this is to say that I have an issue with either player by the way. I rate both highly. Salah’s record speaks for itself and I consider Gakpo’s striking ability, with his right foot, to be truly elite. The problems occur when we play them both. It just doesn’t seem to work at all.

Think the fly in that ointment would be that it would require a predominantly left footed player like Salah to start beating full backs and/or getting into position using an overlapping player so that he could then provide crosses and cut backs.

Not sure Salah has the pace to be doing that on a regular basis anymore.

And swapping Gakpo to the right then removes what a chunk of what makes him such a threat in being able to cut in and get onto that right foot of his.

[memzey]

True, but that's not what I meant. Apologies if it wasn't clear. I meant the logic would apply equally to either wide forward we have at the moment. Like this:

"Put a pacy Left sided attacker that cuts in or one that likes to hug the touchline and get crosses/cut backs into the box and then Salah and what he does would be fine imo"

[Doc_Piptorious]

True, but that's not what I meant. Apologies if it wasn't clear. I meant the logic would apply equally to either wide forward we have at the moment. Like this:

"Put a pacy Left sided attacker that cuts in or one that likes to hug the touchline and get crosses/cut backs into the box and then Salah and what he does would be fine imo"

Was my mistake. I did not pick up at all on what you meant. I wrongly thought you meant swapping the two guys we currently have.


In hindsight, I think it was pretty obvious you meant with a new winger onboard.

[peterbread]

With all the talk about needing a CB and links to attacking players the team could do with a new RB. Bradley continues to struggle to stay fit and Frimpong would be better suited to playing higher up the pitch. Gomez is brilliant but we all know his injury record.

We can’t keep having to play Dom there and miss out on everything he offers in attack. Unless Ramsey somehow becomes a viable option it’s a real weak area in the squad. Maybe someone who can cover both CB and RB like Gomez can.

[Kenneth]

It's absolutely not a weak area. Injuries happen, it's bad luck, but they're both coming back shortly and are both quality.

[peterbread]

I didn’t mean weak in terms of quality but weak in terms of availability. Bradley and Gomez have regular injury issues and that would leave Frimpong. And he’s covered both positions on the right so far which seems he was bought to do. And the talk is he’s going to get the chance to prove himself in that role while Salah is away.

I don’t think you can count Gomez and Bradley as unlucky with their records. Frimpong yes, he had a very good record before we signed him.