The other side of the coin - Re:Al Makhtoum

[dom9]

I love it when everyone finetunes their arguments to such an extent they end up agreeing with each other.

[Slim]

I love it when everyone finetunes their arguments to such an extent they end up agreeing with each other.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.



Actually you're right

[BobSkinstad]

Well, them not abandoning power was pretty much my point. And maybe they should have abandoned undemocratic forms of government like the US and UK so frequently urge others these days. Anyway, I do think that monarchs effectively steal from the people. I don't mind withdrawing the kleptocracy accusation but I'll retain the charge of it being kleptocratic in nature. So, we can draw a fine line in between there if you like.

Okey dokey.

I don't suppose Abramovich gets everything his own way either - he, like Murdoch, is an oligarch not a monarch or dictator. Besides, maybe we should use ideas of shifting hegemony when analysing the links between political and economic elites. I, like you, would actually draw a line between Abramovich and Murdoch because what Abramovich has done to build up his wealth and power is worse than what Murdoch has done. That doesn't indicate a difference in kind to me though. Also, Abramovich's actions would clearly be against the law in many countries. Were they in Russia? If not, then wouldn't other buisinesspeople have acted in the same way. If so, then did his political connections help him get away with it? Isn't that similar to what happens elsewhere? I think you might find plenty of blue chip companies who behave in other countries in quite immoral ways that over here would be considered illegal. Bribery among arms manufacturers, oil companies' actions in Africa and elsewhere...

1) There wasn't really a legal system as we would describe it in place in Russia at the time. Everything was still a hangover from the old Communist days so law enforcement officials and judges were heavily susceptible to political pressure, bribery, etc. and in some cases could easily be "terminated" if they became a problem. Members of the government weren't bothered as to whether the privatisation process was run along sensible lines or not - all they were bothered about was lining their own pockets as well. And when the corruption is at government level, the authorities are hardly going to claim it ain't kosher, are they? The entire system was corrupt; however, in any sane society those involved would be in prison.

2) Others did act in the same way and also got away with it. They should also be in prison. Fact is, however, it was only Berezovsky, Abramovich and their mates who were able to play this particular game.

3) I don't doubt that, but Shell, Exxon, Lockheed Martin, EADS or whoever aren't buying Premiership clubs yet.

[Assassin]

The Guardian Article. I agree that the club may have sold their soul to some sort of devil to achieve our desires of success.



http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...ots_in_sh.html

To balance the above

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is a winner and he strives for the very best he has been quoted many times as saying "In the race for excellence, there's no finish line". This one simple sentence, speaks volumes about his attitude.

In horse racing when he first started he was up against the likes of Magnier, Sangster and several other extremely rich established studs, but he took them on and beat them all

Back in 1983 as widely publiscised Sheikh Mohammed paid for Snaafi Dancer, a horse that was not only so slow that he never raced, but at stud he proved infertile as well.

You might think a fool and his money are easily parted and SM was spending blindly to try and compete with Magnier, Sangster etc...

However, for those who dont know, Snaafi Dancer was out of Northern Dancer who was a Canadian-bred Thoroughbred racehorse and the most successful sire of the 20th Century. The greatest of all time was thoroughbred named St. Simon, a horse Northern Dancer is very inbred to. Northern Dancer in his two years of racing, won 14 of his 18 races and never finished worse than third. What I am trying to prove here is SM is not afraid to spend a lot of money on top quality albiet in this case it didnt work out (and there were several more expensive failuresonly the way), it was merely a challenge for him along the way to becoming owner of the greatest Stud in thoroughbred racing

Forget all the negative spin doctors, it is bornout of jealousy.....

[KingKenny]

I can't speak for all Jewish reds but 3 of my mates who are indeed Jewish reds are as excited as most of us by the prospect of being owned by Arabs

its all kosher mate

[lfc4ever]

Sheikh is not a Roman ruler

Dec 7 2006

Sports View With Echo Sports Editor John Thompson

THE comparisons this week between Roman Abramovichand Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum may have been inevitable.

But in another sense they arealso crude and misleading.

The two may have immense personal fortunes in common. But that is about all.

Abramovich was a young opportunist in Russia, his personal wealth largely accrued from the chance which the end of Communism offered to someone sharp-eyed enough to see it in an impoverished, iron curtain super power.

The wealth in Dubai, however,comes from what lies naturally beneath its desertlands, oil wealth which is being invested to build Dubai up into one of the modern wonders of the economic and tourist world.

The business planning and visionary expertise thathas gone into spending and investing Dubai's riches is a far cry from anything Abramovichcan claim.

So any portrayal of Liverpool's hoped fordeal with Dubai as a prize fight between two super rich men seeking a playground for a battle of egos is wrong.

Truth is that while Sheikh Mo, as he is affectionately known, is the ultimate power here, the man most closely involved with the Reds' negotiations is the head of Dubai International Capital, Sameer Al Ansari.

It is rumoured he has the Anfield crest permanently on his mobile phone and take it as red -he does genuinely support Liverpool.

But he also has 20 years as afinance and investment professional, vast experience with anumber of well known multi-national companies in Europe and the Middle East including BDO, Ernst &Young, and Dubai Aluminium Company.

He is also a boardmember on several companies locally and internationally including Dubai Media Inc, Dubai Holding and Dubai International Financial Centre.

He is a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales and holds an Honours BSc in Accounting & Financial Management, plus a Diploma in Industrial Studies. Had enough?

In other words, he is a highly educated, talented, professional executive - not the sort to let a beating heart rule a cool head, to boast about his yachts or surely tell Rafa Benitez which striker to go out and buy.

That is why if Liverpool were ever to pass into the realm of an overseas investor,then those who hold the power and the purse strings in Dubai seem as suitable as any fan could hope to have behind their club.

Sheikh Mohammed and the people he surrounds himself with are of the highest calibre, not crude or classless in the way they conduct themselves or go about their business.

They are also winners to the core, so much so that one respected British racing pundit whohas seen their role in the Godolphin racing stable's success, has said Reds fans should rejoice at the prospect of this deal.

It has not happened yet. And while it probably will, until the ink is dry on the paper work no Kopite should burst open the bubbly and proclaim anew era at Anfield just yet.

But should the moment come, the first toast should be to Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry and chairman David Moores.

They are on the verge of pulling off what seems to be the greatest deal in the history of Liverpool Football Club, possibly of any football club.

Amid immense public pressures,they have carefully bided their time to hopefully now place Liverpool into the best hands they could hope to find anywhere in the world.

[Iceman]

A quote from sheik Mohamed appears on the godolphin website

"We must dream big....................only then can we achieve big"

the more I read about thjis guy the more I like him

[Nicey]

Haha I love it ,


Reminds me of a conversation I had with the Misus a couple of nights ago before hitting the sack. I excitedly exclaimed !”Hey Hey I nearly forgot the 5th richest man in the world is buying Liverpool Whoo Hoo!” she rightly pointed out, But !you always slag Chelsea off for having I rich owner, I think I replied yeah that’s because at the time we didn’t have one. We had a good laugh.

I think Tomasjj summed up the situation perfectly with “Do we want to continue to be a big club and to adapt to the fact that football is now a huge business, mainly dominated by money and multinationals and the ideology and principles that follow, or to stay locally owned and most probably drift into midtable”

It is my opinion that families in the Middle east are almost falling over themselves to reinvest their fortunes into tangible investments particularly concentrating on transforming their oil based economies into information/ tourist/ service based economies as quickly as possible. Not getting into the politics of the above statement I can only see it meaning one thing for us and that is buckets and buckets of money, not just investment. It is in their interest that we are not only successful but the biggest club on the planet. What better way to promote your country as a modern transforming society / country open for business / tourism than to be associated to the Biggest Show on the Planet. Football is the one thing that connects the world. Much more so than any Religion I would guess Liverpool Fc has probably the strongest worldwide crossover appeal for new fans around the world. It has such a pedigree excuse the pun like a thorough bred champion race horse. Once we hold onto to our traditions as much as possible I am very happy about this.

That said it makes me laugh when you hear about the “Liverpool Way” can someone print up a pamphlet and hand them out at Anfield just as a little reminder half of them cant be arsed to sing 2 bars of You Will Never Walk alone let alone a full Verse, the Liverpool way my arse

Lol Still We are soon to be the Most Dominate Force in World Football !! Rock on ! Walk On !

[Redlife]

It's interesting how the media and most other fans don't seem to realize the potential scale of this. Most of the newspapers have ran pieces, SSN covered the story for a day and a half, and then not much else.



As if it might just be a little investment, rather than something potentially huge as is being hinted.

[Neil Young]

I love it when everyone finetunes their arguments to such an extent they end up agreeing with each other.

It could be though that people are arguing over relatively minor details or making different points.

Also it could be that actually people are revising their views in the light of the expressed views of others which is what arguing is meant to achieve, hmmm?

In addition it could be that when read someone's views we are pattern-matching it to our own and seeing whether overall it fits or not and, in the process, missing some of the complexities of another's point-of-view so that when these are made apparent later then we see revisions and backtracking rather than expansion and clarification.

I realize a good old-fashioned shouting match where no-one listens to anyone else might make more entertaining reading though and, for example, would certainly have been more fun than wading through this particular post. If it's boring to read, imagine how much more boring it was to write.

[dom9]

Next up, World peace then Neil?

[Neil Young]

Next up, World peace then Neil?

Apparently Tony Blair is seeing to that. After all, he's done such a fine job in Iraq.

[DT_]

Some people - Liverpool Echo among them it would seem - are making excuses already.

I've yet to be convinced that there is a major difference between this takeover and the ones we've laughed so hard at over the last two years. Sure, we're a successful club and some would even argue that we've earnt the right to have investment. I still don't quite see how this is fundamentally different.

Yes, it would appear to be absolutely necessary for the club to maintain the level of success, or that's what everyone would have us believe anyway. But is this really the road we want to take?

I have this fear that there won't be much of Liverpool FC worth loving and being proud of left when the dust has settled. That process might have been going on for the past twenty years, but at one point you stop and have a look, and everything has changed. I fear these changes myself.

[dom9]

I have this fear that there won't be much of Liverpool FC worth loving and being proud of left when the dust has settled. That process might have been going on for the past twenty years, but at one point you stop and have a look, and everything has changed. I fear these changes myself.

Welcome mate.

I think you could apply that last paragraph to football in general. I also think it's too late. Football sold its soul years ago, the formation of the Premiership in this country / Champions League in Europe being two such examples.

Money has become more important than anything else. To compete effectively, you need to aquire more of it than your rivals. It doesn't matter how the money comes, as long as there are piles of it.

I hate what football has become. I go and watch Bath City occasionally, a club that is stuck in time somewhere in the 60s. Ther football is crap, but I like the total lack of commercialisation and the community atmosphere. It reminds me of going to watch games at Plough Lane in the 80s.

I really admire those people at AFC Wimbledon and the Manchester United club (can't remember their name now) for saying enough is enough. Let's go back to our roots.

[Robster007]

People tend to underestimate this man's foresight (as well as his late father's of course) into turning Dubai into a country no longer reliant on their oil exports. What they've achieved in Dubai is nothing short of remarkable.

I'm certainly not underestimating their foresight, but they would be camel jockeys themselves if it wasn't for the oil.


How would they have built their man-made islands and sail shaped hotels?

They would be nomads wandering the desert.