The other side of the coin - Re:Al Makhtoum

[BobSkinstad]

It's an emirate. Each emirate enjoys a great degree of autonomy.

[Red_Polo]

I'm upset you use the word "racist" without explaining what was racist in my post. That's a pretty big accusation to level without an explanation, and comments like that can get you in a lot of trouble.

So please, explain.

You don't see that suggesting without oil people in the UAE would all 'just' be wandering the desert as nomads or 'camel jockeys' infers some kind of racial inferiority? Unintended or otherwise.

[tomasjj]

Sorry, I have been away from the computer.
I think Red Polo has summed it up for me. Those phrases were the ones that I reacted to, and found bordering on racism.

[Robster007]

As I said before, oil is not a main player in the Dubai economy anymore. It's all in Abu Dhabi. And it was discovered only recently in Mauritania as I understand it. Also, might not the political situation have something to do with it? I.e. Dubai being under the control of an enlightened (albeit authoritarian) regime which rules for the benefit of the populace but Mauritania enduring a history of instability and being ruled by a military junta?

Obviously my initial mistake was in referring to Dubai, rather than UAE.

Yes there have been non-bloody coups in Mauritanias recent history and there is a bloody one expected any time soon, hence my reasons for being there. That said, I think their inablity to realise their oil resources has been down to a mixture of political and economic reasons. But I still think the comparison is a fair one to a degree.

The highlighted part of your statement underlines what i'm trying to say. Without the initial wealth that Dubai (sorry UAE) gained from the oil and gas, they wouldn't be in a position to develop other areas of their economy which are now key to their growth. It's not a major factor any more, but that hasn't always been the case.

[Robster007]

You don't see that suggesting without oil people in the UAE would all 'just' be wandering the desert as nomads or 'camel jockeys' infers some kind of racial inferiority? Unintended or otherwise.

You read into what I say in a certain way, and then label me as bordering on racist based on that. What if I were to say without certain political events in our history, many more of our population may still be coal miners, or car plant workers etc etc?

Would that be bordering on racist? No it wouldn't.

I'm sick of political correctness gone mad. You know nothing about me. I have an adopted 3 year old Palestinian daughter. She was orphaned by the Israelis. If I had the slightest racist tendency, do you think this would be the case? Of course not.

All too often people are willing to make baseless comments which can only be blamed on the way our society is currently deteriorating into a multi-cultural politically (in)correct free for all, whereby I (we) have to make every decision based on numerous external factors which shouldn't affect us.

Please, get a grip.

[Angryred]

#deleted#

[Angryred]

Sainthood and wealth dont go together

I'm the Perfect Example - I'm a F@#$%&g Saint and always Broke

So was Jesus, pal! You are in exalted company...

[Red_Polo]

You read into what I say in a certain way, and then label me as bordering on racist based on that. What if I were to say without certain political events in our history, many more of our population may still be coal miners, or car plant workers etc etc?

Would that be bordering on racist? No it wouldn't.

I'm sick of political correctness gone mad. You know nothing about me. I have an adopted 3 year old Palestinian daughter. She was orphaned by the Israelis. If I had the slightest racist tendency, do you think this would be the case? Of course not.

All too often people are willing to make baseless comments which can only be blamed on the way our society is currently deteriorating into a multi-cultural politically (in)correct free for all, whereby I (we) have to make every decision based on numerous external factors which shouldn't affect us.

Please, get a grip.

Nobody labelled you as bordering on racist. Someone else labelled your comments as bordering on racist. You got angry and refused to see how they could be construed that way. I am trying to explain to you how they could, even if it wasn't intended that way, and engage in a sensible discussion about it. If you can't manage that without getting all pissy then I will happily **** off and request that you do the same

[carheex]

I don't think we should just close our eyes because it's Liverpool.

If DIC were taking over, say, Arsenal, how many on here would agree with the article?

I don't know all the facts, so I can't comment either way, but I do know that football in general has changed, and not for the better.

if it ain't football related, why even bring it up. we can't be expected to be moral crusaders! we don't get to choose who owns our club so there's no point in even debating this sort of irrelevant crap. can't wait for the takeover myself - and it wouldn't bother me if the new owner had CCJs, homosexual tendencies or links to the britannia book club! let's be grateful that we're giving ourselves a chance to bring back league glory. because if we're totally honest and understand the real world, it ain;t gonna happen without big investement.

[DT_]

if it ain't football related, why even bring it up. we can't be expected to be moral crusaders! we don't get to choose who owns our club so there's no point in even debating this sort of irrelevant crap. can't wait for the takeover myself - and it wouldn't bother me if the new owner had CCJs, homosexual tendencies or links to the britannia book club! let's be grateful that we're giving ourselves a chance to bring back league glory. because if we're totally honest and understand the real world, it ain;t gonna happen without big investement.

There's a damned big difference between reluctantly accepting that perhaps we need to move on and openly embracing the change, don't you think?

[Robster007]

Nobody labelled you as bordering on racist. Someone else labelled your comments as bordering on racist. You got angry and refused to see how they could be construed that way. I am trying to explain to you how they could, even if it wasn't intended that way, and engage in a sensible discussion about it. If you can't manage that without getting all pissy then I will happily **** off and request that you do the same

Firstly, I didn't get angry. I don't get angry at people I don't even know. I get animated. Discussions on subjects such as this often do get animated. For angry, see the above highlighted swear words.

I didn't refuse to see how they could be construed that way. I disagreed. I also disagreed with somebody replying to my comments incorporating a word such as racism without any sort of explanation.

As to how you people arrive at the conclusion that using the term 'camel jockey' could be found offensive by members of an Arab nation that hold the sport in such high esteem, amazes me.

Also, before the great oil riches, the majority of the Arab world were wandering the desert as members of nomadic tribes. It's funny that the turning point in their history coincides with the discovery of valuable natural resources.

In conclusion, (in a non angry way), before you start speaking for members of cultures that you are not a part of, think about what you're saying.

I do.

[tomasjj]

I didn't refuse to see how they could be construed that way. I disagreed. I also disagreed with somebody replying to my comments incorporating a word such as racism without any sort of explanation.

You are right, I should have explained myself. However, I felt that it wasn't necessary, as, to me, it was evident. So I thought that maybe you would see how your comments could be percieved and interpreted as bordering on racist, when I made my comment.
Nothing personal, but I don't want to be dragged into polemics, as I see that as non-productive for a debate of this kind.

On a more general note, I do agree with you that political correctness tend to go too far in todays society.

[Red_Polo]

Firstly, I didn't get angry.

'How DARE you'...'get a grip'.....'I am sick of' etc etc

I understand that you were not being racist, and I understand and agree with the points you make in your post, I am not debating them at all. But words carry inferences beyond what was actually meant, so that someone construed your comments as borderline racist was hardly a huge surprise to me given the context. That's all. No need to jump out your pram fella

Btw, I found it absolutely hilarious that you went off on a rant about how people this is all PC gone mad and then ended with a comment on how I should think more about I say, presumably lest I offend anyone

[Robster007]

You are right, I should have explained myself. However, I felt that it wasn't necessary, as, to me, it was evident. So I thought that maybe you would see how your comments could be percieved and interpreted as bordering on racist, when I made my comment.
Nothing personal, but I don't want to be dragged into polemics, as I see that as non-productive for a debate of this kind.

On a more general note, I do agree with you that political correctness tend to go too far in todays society.

'How DARE you'...'get a grip'.....'I am sick of' etc etc

I understand that you were not being racist, and I understand and agree with the points you make in your post, I am not debating them at all. But words carry inferences beyond what was actually meant, so that someone construed your comments as borderline racist was hardly a huge surprise to me given the context. That's all. No need to jump out your pram fella

I am many things. Racist isn't one of them. Sorry for any inference that may have been misconstrued. :bird:

[Red_Polo]

Robster, nobody's calling you a racist!! In my first post I said I understood how the comments could be construed as racist, even if it was unintended! You keep justifying your comments etc, but I don't think they are factually wrong necessarily, so you're preaching to the converted.

Yes, the people of the UAE might well have all been nomads without oil. Nothing wrong with that, and there are still nomads out there now. The point is, when someone reads that comment, they are going to question why you would say it, and given that it didn't argue any point made before it, it is not that surprising it was construed as racist by someone even if it was just you feeling like you'd add an interesting tidbit of info into the thread.