Roberto Firmino

[Kenneth]

Keegan supported Toshack and Kenny played off Rush. Get it?

[RedReet]

Keegan wasn't prolific, nor Kenny for many of his seasons with us. They brought something more to the team than goals. Which was the point of the article.

You comprehend?

Well she specifically mentioned the players she did because they were all on the books under Rodgers and Klopp, who both played with a similar attacking style, using a fluid front free, not suited for the archetypal CF. They were all either shoehorned into the first 11 to the detriment of the team, or binned at the first opportunity.

She purposely didn't mention Suarez or Sturridge, not because they were better players and prove her theory wrong, but because they suited the system and therefore flourished. Suarez also wasn't a proper CF, couldn't finish and didn't have the physique, but Rodgers played him there despite the initial criticism. Sturridge was signed as a more recognisable no.9, but he was capable of playing wide and dropping deep, so suited the system perfectly.

Likewise she didn't mention teh likes of Torres, Owen, Fowler, even Heskey because they all suited they system they played under their respective managers.

[danperkins]

Been banging that drum for a while. Belotti is an awesome player who brings nearly everything Firmino does to the striker role but is far more clinical.

Him and Firmino in the same team with Salah and Mane on the flanks would be hell for teams to defend against.

Belotti plays well as a lone attacker but links well when played as part of a two or three player attack, and he interchanges very well.


The guy has the sort of work rate that would have Dirk Kuyt giving a nod of approval and can mix it when players try to kick him out of a game.

If Coutinho wants out come January or the summer, then would love to wsee us throw a chunk of that money towards Belotti and let Firmino play in the attacking midfielder/support striker role that he did so well in for Hoffenheim.

[danperkins]

The Firmino as a CF argument is going around in circles so have to agree to disagree. It's a nothing article as far as my small mind can comprehend so best leave it at that.

To be clear I think Firmino is a very good player, he will score goals and have some great games, that is a given... whether or not it will be enough goals remains to be seen. His work rate is always going to be excellent, that is also a given but he was brought to LFC because of the production he was getting from an attacking midfield area & looked brilliant there. Whether it is got to do with a serious lack of striking options or simply that Klopp prefers Firmino there is up for debate and well we will not know until the summer when we go back into the market whether Klopp will look to buy in that area.

Question for Red, at the start of next season would you like to see Firmino in his current striking role?

[Fredo]

How many goals he scores is irrelevant if we end up sharing them across the team.

[Kenneth]

Well she specifically mentioned the players she did because they were all on the books under Rodgers and Klopp, who both played with a similar attacking style, using a fluid front free, not suited for the archetypal CF. They were all either shoehorned into the first 11 to the detriment of the team, or binned at the first opportunity.

She purposely didn't mention Suarez or Sturridge, not because they were better players and prove her theory wrong, but because they suited the system and therefore flourished. Suarez also wasn't a proper CF, couldn't finish and didn't have the physique, but Rodgers played him there despite the initial criticism. Sturridge was signed as a more recognisable no.9, but he was capable of playing wide and dropping deep, so suited the system perfectly.

Likewise she didn't mention teh likes of Torres, Owen, Fowler, even Heskey because they all suited they system they played under their respective managers.

Suarez was more prolific at Ajax than he was with us! She didn't use him and Sturridge in his prime precisely because they counter her argument. Lethal goal scorers who also provided great movement and assists. It is eminently possible to have the best of both worlds.

[Kenneth]

How many goals he scores is irrelevant if we end up sharing them across the team.

And when you look at our chances converted rate in the PL, do we?

[danperkins]

How many goals he scores is irrelevant if we end up sharing them across the team.

Well it's pretty relevant really isn't it to be fair & why not have both likes of City? There are CF's out there with great work rate that bang in 25+ goals every season. Why not have that option in our side to compliment that goals coming from wide areas?

Name a team that has won the league and not had a main striker smashing goals in? There are very, very few & that is not a coincidence having a guy that takes chances when others can't and gets you 3 points when it is looking like you're getting only 1 point.

Firmino is a quality player that has excelled in an attacking midfield role his whole career & precisely why we bought him. Phil will be off next season, would you rather us keep Firmino there and have Keita in for Phil or push Firmino back to his proper position & buy a striker than bangs in loads of goals to compliment the goals shared across other areas of the team?

[danperkins]

And when you look at our chances converted rate in the PL, do we?

our is 11.4%, City's is 23.6%, United's 23.6%.

14th in chances converted, the teams below us are West Ham, Everton, Bournemouth, Palace, Huddersfield, Southampton.

[Fosterbloke]

Well it's pretty relevant really isn't it to be fair & why not have both likes of City? There are CF's out there with great work rate that bang in 25+ goals every season. Why not have that option in our side to compliment that goals coming from wide areas?

Name a team that has won the league and not had a main striker smashing goals in? There are very, very few & that is not a coincidence having a guy that takes chances when others can't and gets you 3 points when it is looking like you're getting only 1 point.

Firmino is a quality player that has excelled in an attacking midfield role his whole career & precisely why we bought him. Phil will be off next season, would you rather us keep Firmino there and have Keita in for Phil or push Firmino back to his proper position & buy a striker than bangs in loads of goals to compliment the goals shared across other areas of the team?

AC Milan and Valencia come to mind.

[Fredo]

Well the figures don't show the full story and doesn't say that this is not going to change in the future and we won't improve.

I'd rather have Firminho than Lukaku for instance, who's lazy and somewhat one dimensional. The point is there aren't a lot of players who could do a better job than Firminho overall.

[fidget]

our is 11.4%, City's is 23.6%, United's 23.6%.

14th in chances converted, the teams below us are West Ham, Everton, Bournemouth, Palace, Huddersfield, Southampton.

Very small sample size though.
Do the same for the CL games - that won't mean anything either

[danperkins]

Well the figures don't show the full story and doesn't say that this is not going to change in the future and we won't improve.

I'd rather have Firminho than Lukaku for instance, who's lazy and somewhat one dimensional. The point is there aren't a lot of players who could do a better job than Firminho overall.

But Klopp signed Lewandowski and Aubamenang whilst at Dortmund, two goal machines that offer little of nothing from a defensive side of things. One dimensional but both considered two of the best at scoring goals who had players around them chipping in with goals aswell. Same as he had DM's midfielders in Kehl and Bender at Dortmund but at LFC has none. Total change in the way he has set up a team during his whole career or is he just making do with what he has at LFC?

And the figures could get worse. We have all watched the games so we know that it actually does tell the full story about the sitters we have missed that should have us near the top of the table.

[RedReet]

Suarez was more prolific at Ajax than he was with us! She didn't use him and Sturridge in his prime precisely because they counter her argument. Lethal goal scorers who also provided great movement and assists. It is eminently possible to have the best of both worlds.

I genuinely still can't work out if you're on a proper wind up or reverting back to your Operation days. I really hope it's not the latter.

I'll ignore the first part of your post as it's just nonsense, and concentrate on the last line. This is your key argument and in isolation it's completely fair. If we could get a player that does what Firmino does, but score more, of course we would be better off. Jaco (one of the few people that makes fair points in this debate) suggested Belotti and he could well be right, I haven't seen enough of him to judge. If i had to pick a player myself, I'd love Jesus (ignoring Suarez obviously).

What isn't fair enough is that every time we have a poor result (or even a decent one but Firmino doesn't score) the same **** is peddled by the same people, in forums, in pubs, in phone in's and by **** pundits. Liverpool need a proper No.9, a finisher (I'll not go through the endless list of cliches). The general assumption is put any half decent finisher up front for us and we'll be a much better team (I think your suggestion is Vardy, because he works hard, ignoring that to get the best out of Vardy he has to play on the shoulder of the last defender, which he can't do in our system). Melissa is actually quite generous in her article using two of the league's best for comparison and Dan Perkins likes to rhyme off the world's best, ignoring how attainable they are, but it normally only gets that far after the initial "no.9" comments are challenged.

How we've got so many airmiles out of this is beyond me. The key argument is that many fans feel that it's a system flaw, that we'd be much better off if we played an orthodox CF, one that doesn't drop deep or move out wide. The names are irrelevant, they are just fluff to keep this circular argument going (something I need to remind myself and not get drawn in). The other, more disturbing issue, is that for some fans it's seems to be a case of 'anybody but Firmino'. We had quite a few on here calling for Mane to play CF and Solanki at start a crucial game against Maribor FFS.

[RedReet]

The Firmino as a CF argument is going around in circles so have to agree to disagree. It's a nothing article as far as my small mind can comprehend so best leave it at that.

To be clear I think Firmino is a very good player, he will score goals and have some great games, that is a given... whether or not it will be enough goals remains to be seen. His work rate is always going to be excellent, that is also a given but he was brought to LFC because of the production he was getting from an attacking midfield area & looked brilliant there. Whether it is got to do with a serious lack of striking options or simply that Klopp prefers Firmino there is up for debate and well we will not know until the summer when we go back into the market whether Klopp will look to buy in that area.

Question for Red, at the start of next season would you like to see Firmino in his current striking role?

I think he's a phenomenal player and expect him improve as the season progresses, so if that's the case, then yes. Ideally I'd like better competition for him, but i agreed with Klopp when he said that the amount of money it would cost to replace Sturridge, it wouldn't be worth it, so I'd prefer we concentrate on other areas.

Just that question reminds of of being ridiculed for suggesting that Suarez would score more than 20 goals at the beginning of 13/14. The idea was so preposterous to some fans at the time that I had to put it as my signature (although I think I predicted 20 assists too ).