Jürgen Klopp

[Mark79]

As I said it’s down to the mental side of things not the physical attributes of keeping.

Expectations, concentration and just the pressure of being our Number 1 will be immense both have shown that’s more than anything that’s what they lack

As I say, I think the issues go beyond concentration and pressure.

Also this argument doesn't explain Reina's regression under Achterberg.

[Doc_Piptorious]

As I say, I think the issues go beyond concentration and pressure.

Also this argument doesn't explain Reina's regression under Achterberg.

Although Reina's regression did also coincide with the team in front of him slowly but steadily regressing along with him getting a bit older.


So hard to put it all on Achterberg when the team as a whole was on a downward slide.

[Mark79]

Although Reina's regression did also coincide with the team in front of him slowly but steadily regressing along with him getting a bit older.


So hard to put it all on Achterberg when the team as a whole was on a downward slide.

He'd have been around 28 so I don't think it was age .
And it might be harsh to question him if we were only talking about Reina, but it's not. It's every other keeper since too.

[Mark79]

Dupe

[Buzzo]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

100%

[Norbs]

Have you actually seen anything of Achterberg asides from a few photos on the site or him warming up the keepers pre-game (not being a smartarse, asking because I haven't)

Couldn't pick him out of a crowd

[Norbs]

I don't remember Mignolet having problems at Sunderland, granted different team, different level of pressure etc.

Karius is, by all accounts of those knew him from Mainz, a shadow of the confident decisive keeper he was, and that's even prior to Kiev.

If Allisson shaves off his beard then we all need to start worrying

[Mark79]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre.

If the club struggled to sign transfer targets for 7 years, would it be bizarre to wonder about the suitability of the Sporting director or CEO?

If the team struggled for 7 years under the same head coach, would it be bizarre to wonder if he's actually the right man for the job?

The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois

Not at all. Would just be great if even just one of them didn't fall to pieces.

Again, of course I can have no idea how much of this is actually on Achterberg.
We don't know the ins and outs, just what we see on the pitch.

But I think after 7 years of seeing successive goalkeepers struggle, it's reasonable enough for there to be question marks over him.

Anyway clean slate. He's got Alisson now.

[chadrtc]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

Good post.

[poorscousertommy]

Some absolute tool on Talk Sport call in saying what has Klopp done for us! How many of our players would get in Man City or Utd teams!

Has to be a blue nose pretending to be a red.

[Fierce]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

@MrMichael - think someone has hacked Chris' account?

[Kenneth]

yes.

[Slinky Skills]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

[baitman]

A good goalie coach will not just be dealing with positioning, organising the defence, fast distribution and transition, but will also deal with developing the mental strengths and assertive aggression needed for a keeper.

Non of our keepers under achterberg have developed mentally, and if anything they seem to have shrank and become.less assertive.
I reckon hes an alpha male type who dominates these guys until they are **** scared of their own shadows.

[Red_Polo]

Lots of utter nonsense being spoken.

Mignolet and Karius both struggled to adapt to playing for us from the get go, but eventually managed to put in a long spell of consistently decent performances before in Mignolet's case he reverted to his original struggles or in Karius' case a single game shattered him. It's plainly utter **** to suggest they have deteriorated under us or just failed to develop. They just weren't that great. It's a tough position to satisfactorily fill. Other big teams have had similar difficulties for long periods.

Achetberg might be amazing or ****e, I've no idea. But I do know that Klopp is spot on to lampoon all these whoppers going around so certain they know how rubbish he must be.