Le Tour

[Neil Young]

Welcome back Grandpa

How was your Saga cruise?

I had a good holiday thanks.

[DeeGame]

I had a good holiday thanks.

Did you meet a potential Grandma on the cruise?

[Guest]

Welcome back Grandpa

How was your Saga cruise?

Did you meet a potential Grandma on the cruise?

Please post a report on the San Sebastian classic Dee to satisfy the man.

[Neil Young]

Did you meet a potential Grandma on the cruise?

No but there is always action on that front.

Now,[Helios_Creed alert] let me just say that I sat next to the bloke from Sky's/Domino Pizzas' break-bumpers for The Simpsons on the flight home yesterday. "Where's the phone?" - that's the fellow. Nice chap. Very quiet. Into his Derren Brown book and playing snooker on his PSP.[/Helios_Creed alert]

[Neil Young]

Please post a report on the San Sebastian classic Dee to satisfy the man.

I would but Eurosport have, in the finite wisdom, decided to show only a highlights package tomorrow at 6pm*.


* That's if their website is to be trusted which on matters of TV scheduling it often isn't.

[DeeGame]

Please post a report on the San Sebastian classic Dee to satisfy the man.

is this what the Saga people call a speed dating night?

[DeeGame]

No but there is always action on that front.

well if you wasnt so grumpy you might have found some companionship

[Neil Young]

well if you wasnt so grumpy you might have found some companionship

True.

[DeeGame]

True.

You are going to become a lonely old man when me & Kenneth move out

[Neil Young]

You are going to become a lonely old man when me & Kenneth move out

[dww]

Well, well, well, what a motley load of dinner guests feasting on the apparently rotting corpse of professional cycling. (There are honourable exceptions of course. )

No mention of the fact that this was the closest-ever Tour de France podium. No recognition that catching the cheats and throwing them out can actually be construed a success . And strangely little or no comparison with the hidden and suppressed roll of shame of drug-taking (and other forms of cheating) afflicting other sports, including football. Oh yes, that's right, professional footballers don't take cocaine, do they? And Rasmussen faces a two year ban for missing a drugs test. How long was Ferdinand's again?

Cycling clearly has a major problem which, not coincidentally, is why it has the most rigorous drug-testing policies of any sport. I read today that a MLB player has just been banned for 80 games - what's that, four months? In cycling, it's two years. Over 60% of the athletes caught up in the Operation Puerto investigation are not cyclists yet only cyclists' names have been released. I have no idea why that is but I'd be very interested to know what sports the others are involved in.

A couple of other points are worth making I think. First, there are individual careers and substantial amounts of money to be made out of developing foolproof drug tests. There is naturally a tendency to overclaim the success records of tests. It seems entirely feasible that some of the cases of apparently definitive cheating may turn out to be less clearcut when we understand the science better.

Second, while on the subject of careers, WADA's chief seems to rely on getting huge amounts of publicity for himself in the name of anti-doping. The aptly-named Dick Pound appears to be less forthcoming on workable ways forward to rid professional sport of drugs. Abstinence programmes and "Just Say No" didn't work for society in general - why should his holier-than-thou attitude prevail in professional sport? Of course, it makes him look good though...

Finally, I am looking forward to everyone's contributions on today's San Sebastian Classic.

What exactly did operation Puerta investigate?

I agree about the missing drugs test thing, especially as both people you refer to seem to have lied deliberately to their employer.

However I'm not sure that recreational drugs which have no sporting advantage should be dealt with in the same way as drugs which are used to improve performance.

I can't help but feel that cycling (like F1 for me) has stopped feeling like a sport. It now feels much more like a soap which is why the final standings of either have a hard time getting me excited.

[Neil Young]

What exactly did operation Puerta investigate?

I agree about the missing drugs test thing, especially as both people you refer to seem to have lied deliberately to their employer.

However I'm not sure that recreational drugs which have no sporting advantage should be dealt with in the same way as drugs which are used to improve performance.

I can't help but feel that cycling (like F1 for me) has stopped feeling like a sport. It now feels much more like a soap which is why the final standings of either have a hard time getting me excited.

I tend to agree with many of your points there - certainly the result of the Tour was tainted for me by all the scandals although I couldn't find it as uninteresting or uninspiring as Formula 1.

My point about footballers taking coke is twofold: first it has to have an effect on performance (albeit a negative one) so to do it is to cheat the fans and the club; second it illustrates the laxness of the drug-testing programme in football. I agree however that there is a difference between performance-enhancing and recreational drug use.

Operation Puerto was an investigation by Spanish police of blood doping - i.e. the storing of an athlete's blood for reinjection later. It boosts red blood cell counts, helping stamina and, presumably, recovery too. It's what Vinokourov should have done had he any sense rather than injecting someone else's blood (assuming he did) which is detectable.

Among other things, it prevented Basso and Ullrich taking place in last year's TdF and eventually led to Basso's current 2-year suspension after he admitted intending to dope (hmmm, so he hadn't actually done so? ).

I'd guess the other sports involved are likely to be endurance sports and at this stage there are no indicators of the nationalities of the other people caught up in the investigation.

However, would I be correct in thinking that Spain has a good recent record in middle- and long-distance running and in triathlon?

[Helios Creed]

No but there is always action on that front.

Now,[Helios_Creed alert] let me just say that I sat next to the bloke from Sky's/Domino Pizzas' break-bumpers for The Simpsons on the flight home yesterday. "Where's the phone?" - that's the fellow. Nice chap. Very quiet. Into his Derren Brown book and playing snooker on his PSP.[/Helios_Creed alert]

How on earth did you recognize him? And what in god's name is a break-bumper?

[Neil Young]

How did I recognise him? Oddly enough, it was his face.

A break-bumper is a short film one or other side of an advertising break to promote the programme's sponsor. "Ident" is another term used. Fascinating, eh?

[Helios Creed]

How did I recognise him? Oddly enough, it was his face.

A break-bumper is a short film one or other side of an advertising break to promote the programme's sponsor. "Ident" is another term used. Fascinating, eh?

You would have been good on Screen Test.