Australia Vs. India Test Series Thread

[tsb]

Players always verbally abuse each other - Youtube some of the recent India-Pakistan series for some new hindi/urdu swear words!!

Racial abuse is a totally different kettle of fish and (once proven) it should be dealt with a severe penalty, eg a 6 month ban or similar.

Some of the comments on those vids make me shudder.

[Tee]

Some of the comments on those vids make me shudder.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, my grasp of Urdu is fairly limited and I do not understand most swears (apart from the obvious Maa.... and Bhain.... ones)

Swearing is part and parcel of competitive sport - not nice but sport is emotional and tensions run high. Does not excuse racist abuse though.

[DeeGame]

Kumble denies Harbhajan race slur

India captain Anil Kumble has insisted for the first time that Harbhajan Singh did not make a racist comment towards Andrew Symonds during the second Test.

Harbhajan was banned for three matches after being found guilty of calling Australian batsman Symonds a "monkey".

It later emerged Kumble asked Aussie skipper Ricky Ponting not to report the incident, but he said: "I offered to apologise only to smooth things over.

"I am convinced that a racist remark was neither made nor intended."

South Africa batsman Boeta Dippenaar told BBC Sport that Kumble's approach, of trying to deal with the issue between himself and Ponting, was the right way of dealing with the matter.

"If there was an issue the players should have gone to each other and said that was wrong and if there wasn't any conclusion it should then have been followed through the proper steps," he said.

"It's too easy to say this guy said this so I'm going to report him to the match referee."

However, former Australia batsman Justin Langer believes what Ponting did was correct.

He told BBC Radio Five Live: "If there was racial discrimination - as there was deemed to be because Harbhajan Singh was given a three-Test ban - that cannot be tolerated."

Kumble, though, writing in his column in The Times, claimed relations between the Australian team and his side had become strained because of the hosts' disregard for the spirit of the game.

India suspended their tour on Monday following the Harbhajan hearing but agreed to continue on Tuesday, although they warned they might yet abandon the trip if the spinner's appeal fails.

"I asked Harbhajan why he started it but he said he hadn't; Symonds did and goaded him, so he responded," he said. "Ricky, meanwhile, was just not willing to listen, nor see my point.

"Furthermore, before the series, Ricky and I decided that in the case of a disputed catch we would take the word of the fielder concerned, if he was certain.

"However, Michael Clarke clearly edged to second slip in the second innings and stood there when there was not an iota of doubt over the dismissal and later claimed a catch that showed more than reasonable doubt.

"There will obviously be a question mark about that (whether India will take the word of the Australian fielders) in future matches."

Harbhajan's charge prompted outrage in India and Kumble said: "In my book, it's really important that when somebody is accused of being a racist the charge is not made lightly, is not followed up just to prove a point and is not deemed as proven unless there is absolute evidence.

"Unfortunately this did not happen in Bhajji's case."

The ICC hope Harbhajan's appeal will be heard before next week's third Test, with the spinner set to miss the two remaining Tests in Australia, and one further match should it fail.

The case will be heard by New Zealand High Court judge Justice John Hansen at a venue still to be determined.

Ponting, meanwhile, said he had acted on the guidance of the game's governing body, the International Cricket Council, to report any racial incidents following problems with spectators on Australia's tour of India last year.

Match referee Mike Procter said he was satisfied Harbhajan had used the word - though neither of the two umpires heard the remarks - and that "he meant it to offend on the basis of Symonds' race or ethnic origin".

India reacted to Harbhajan's ban by lodging their own complaint against Australia's Brad Hogg for allegedly making an abusive comment to one of their players, and he has since been charged by the ICC.

Harbhajan is the first player punished for a racist remark since South Africa's Herschelle Gibbs was suspended for three matches in January 2007 after being caught on a stump microphone talking about Pakistan fans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/7174122.stm

[Jayesh87]

Harbi has a history of racially abusing Symonds-fact. He hasnt denied saying it either.Good on ya mate, according to you the Aussies are liars and the only way they can beat India at cricket is to lie and cheat? gee thats fair and open minded.

Stop making things up

He came out straight away and denied it ffs. Actually he came out and strongly denied it.

[Skillz]

From my viewpoint, (racist commet aside) it was infuriating to see India lose a test in which such major decisions went against them. It's hard enough to get a sniff Down Under and when the rug gets pulled out like that it's a kick in the nads. The last visit in 03/04 was brilliant, I was hoping to see a challenge like that again. Oh well, two more left.

No doubt and I don't blame you. Bucknor started losing the plot 3 years ago. No doubt he was a brilliant umpire in his day but it's not like the ICC couldn't see something like this happen. Can't believe he was stood down 12 months ago (at least).

[carlton]

Stop making things up

He came out straight away and denied it ffs. Actually he came out and strongly denied it.

Crikey, we're hardly going to get an unbiased comment from you are we? according to you the aussies are cheating scum. never mind that clarke and hayden heard him- but the aussies are all liars so no joy there either. I havent read or seen or heard him deny calling Symonds a monkey and Im not interested in what his best mate sachin says either- he would say that wouldnt he?. He may have denied saying anything racist cos in his mind he doesnt believe monkey is a racist term. As i said harbi has form racially abusing Symmonds or am I making that up too ffs?

This all gets way from the fact that so far India have been all tip and no iceberg in this series.

[Sarb]

India's version of the Sydney saga
Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 10 Jan 08, 07:35 PM Indian sources insist Harbhajan Singh did not use the word ‘monkey’ during the episode at the Sydney Test that provoked the recent cricket crisis between Australia and India.

But they have admitted to me he abused Andrew Symonds with a highly offensive remark about his mother. Which is clearly wrong.

They, however, also now claim that he was speaking in Hindi and that the three Australians who heard him – Symonds, Matthew Hayden and Michael Clarke - misinterpreted the words as ‘big monkey’.


While his mother tongue is Punjabi, Harbhajan is also equally fluent in Hindi. And though I should not repeat the words he used, I am told there was a reference to Symonds’ mother, with Harbhajan using a Hindi phrase that could have been mis-heard as him saying “big monkey” in English.

Yet crucially, at the hearing held after the match, while denying he used the word ‘monkey’, Harbhajan admitted there was general abuse between him and Symonds, but did not clarify what he did actually say, nor that it was not in English.
Indian officials now plan to make those facts clear when a New Zealand judge hears their appeal on behalf of the International Cricket Council.

But as one source at the first hearing told me, "had the Indians made it clear that Harbhajan had not spoken in English, then match referee Mike Procter would have had to acquit him on the grounds it was a misunderstanding.”

Why Harbhajan did not make this clear to Procter is not obvious, but may in part be down to the curious way the hearing was held.

As we know, the hearing went on for four and a half hours late into last Sunday night and saw Procter ultimately conclude that Harbhajan had racially abused Symonds and ban him for three Tests.


But there is no transcript.

In fact, the only written reports of the hearing are the notes of Nigel Peters, a QC and MCC committee member, who has since returned to England where he is currently engaged in tutoring judges.

His involvement with the hearing was somewhat coincidental. He happened to be in Sydney on holiday to watch the Test, and was roped in fairly late in the day by ICC chief executive Malcolm Speed.

The Indians also seemingly did not take the hearing seriously. They went in without a lawyer and left their advocacy to manager Chetan Chauhan. Although Chauhan has been a politician, he is hardly trained to do the sort of legal work a hearing like this requires. At one stage during the hearing, Chauhan apparently had to be advised by the ICC's legal representative that he should not make statements but actually ask questions of the Australians if he wanted to advance his case.

One source at the hearing told me: "If the Indians had a lawyer they would have made mashed potatoes of the hearing."

Instead they appeared to rely heavily on the fact that Sachin Tendulkar was going into bat for Harbhajan. Tendulkar has a god-like status in India and his integrity is beyond reproach and he told the hearing he did not hear Harbhajan use the word ‘monkey’.

But as far as Procter was concerned, this was not as convincing as the Australian testimony, because Tendulkar was at the other end of the wicket when Symonds and Harbhajan exchanged words. And he only joined in after Harbhajan had gestured to him to come to his rescue.

Umpire Steve Bucknor, who filed the report on the incident after receiving the complaint from Ricky Ponting, also did not hear what Harbhajan said. He heard Symonds’ initial words, prompted by Harbhajan patting Brett Lee’s back with his bat. But taking it to be jokey banter, Bucknor kept on walking to square-leg.

In weighing up the evidence he did have in front of him, Procter also however took into account that there was ‘previous’ between Harbhajan and Symonds, during last autumn’s Australian tour of India when monkey chants were directed at Symonds by the Indian crowd.

And the Australians, in their submission, while admitting they are the so-called kings of sledging, argued the use of the word ‘monkey’ raised it to a new and unacceptable level. They also referred to the fact that monkey chants have in the past been used by English football crowds against black players.

Chauhan tried to counter by saying the word ‘monkey’ is held by many Indians to refer to a god, and it is not considered offensive in India in the same way it would be in the West.

But all that cut little ice with Procter.

And the detail of this whole affair shows just why Harbhajan and the Indians have plenty of lessons to learn.

Especially for you Carlton. The bit in bold...is it clear enough for you?!

[Skillz]

India's version of the Sydney saga
Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 10 Jan 08, 07:35 PM Indian sources insist Harbhajan Singh did not use the word ‘monkey’ during the episode at the Sydney Test that provoked the recent cricket crisis between Australia and India.

But they have admitted to me he abused Andrew Symonds with a highly offensive remark about his mother. Which is clearly wrong.

They, however, also now claim that he was speaking in Hindi and that the three Australians who heard him – Symonds, Matthew Hayden and Michael Clarke - misinterpreted the words as ‘big monkey’.


While his mother tongue is Punjabi, Harbhajan is also equally fluent in Hindi. And though I should not repeat the words he used, I am told there was a reference to Symonds’ mother, with Harbhajan using a Hindi phrase that could have been mis-heard as him saying “big monkey” in English.

Yet crucially, at the hearing held after the match, while denying he used the word ‘monkey’, Harbhajan admitted there was general abuse between him and Symonds, but did not clarify what he did actually say, nor that it was not in English.
Indian officials now plan to make those facts clear when a New Zealand judge hears their appeal on behalf of the International Cricket Council.

But as one source at the first hearing told me, "had the Indians made it clear that Harbhajan had not spoken in English, then match referee Mike Procter would have had to acquit him on the grounds it was a misunderstanding.”

Why Harbhajan did not make this clear to Procter is not obvious, but may in part be down to the curious way the hearing was held.

As we know, the hearing went on for four and a half hours late into last Sunday night and saw Procter ultimately conclude that Harbhajan had racially abused Symonds and ban him for three Tests.


But there is no transcript.

In fact, the only written reports of the hearing are the notes of Nigel Peters, a QC and MCC committee member, who has since returned to England where he is currently engaged in tutoring judges.

His involvement with the hearing was somewhat coincidental. He happened to be in Sydney on holiday to watch the Test, and was roped in fairly late in the day by ICC chief executive Malcolm Speed.

The Indians also seemingly did not take the hearing seriously. They went in without a lawyer and left their advocacy to manager Chetan Chauhan. Although Chauhan has been a politician, he is hardly trained to do the sort of legal work a hearing like this requires. At one stage during the hearing, Chauhan apparently had to be advised by the ICC's legal representative that he should not make statements but actually ask questions of the Australians if he wanted to advance his case.

One source at the hearing told me: "If the Indians had a lawyer they would have made mashed potatoes of the hearing."

Instead they appeared to rely heavily on the fact that Sachin Tendulkar was going into bat for Harbhajan. Tendulkar has a god-like status in India and his integrity is beyond reproach and he told the hearing he did not hear Harbhajan use the word ‘monkey’.

But as far as Procter was concerned, this was not as convincing as the Australian testimony, because Tendulkar was at the other end of the wicket when Symonds and Harbhajan exchanged words. And he only joined in after Harbhajan had gestured to him to come to his rescue.

Umpire Steve Bucknor, who filed the report on the incident after receiving the complaint from Ricky Ponting, also did not hear what Harbhajan said. He heard Symonds’ initial words, prompted by Harbhajan patting Brett Lee’s back with his bat. But taking it to be jokey banter, Bucknor kept on walking to square-leg.

In weighing up the evidence he did have in front of him, Procter also however took into account that there was ‘previous’ between Harbhajan and Symonds, during last autumn’s Australian tour of India when monkey chants were directed at Symonds by the Indian crowd.

And the Australians, in their submission, while admitting they are the so-called kings of sledging, argued the use of the word ‘monkey’ raised it to a new and unacceptable level. They also referred to the fact that monkey chants have in the past been used by English football crowds against black players.

Chauhan tried to counter by saying the word ‘monkey’ is held by many Indians to refer to a god, and it is not considered offensive in India in the same way it would be in the West.

But all that cut little ice with Procter.

And the detail of this whole affair shows just why Harbhajan and the Indians have plenty of lessons to learn.

Especially for you Carlton. The bit in bold...is it clear enough for you?!

Thanks for posting that Sarb. It's good to get the other side's story.

Pretty obvious question arises from that though. Why didnt they just tell Proctor this in the first hearing. TBH it just makes it look like their clutching at straws now and this is the spin. Sorry but that's my take on it.

[carlton]

Sarb, i though we'd heard the last from you on this subject? But thanks for thinking about me. Couldn't help yourself could you? Mirar Bhose would say that wouldnt he?? It seems that on certain issues the press can be believed after all how convienient. This is the same guy who said DIC were going to sell LFC out after 7 years too isnt it? Unlike every other journo this guy is a trusted source I suppose.

Maybe harbi said to Symmonds ' I wish i could earn your BIG MONEY' or maybe 'I ve heard you've got a BIG MUMMY"and he misheard that as big monkey.

Good grief. Im happy to move on now Sarb. Im sure harbi will be cleared anyway and we'll never agree on what happened anyway given you starting point is that aussies are liars and cheats.

[Sarb]

Sarb, i though we'd heard the last from you on this subject? But thanks for thinking about me. Couldn't help yourself could you? Mirar Bhose would say that wouldnt he?? It seems that on certain issues the press can be believed after all how convienient. This is the same guy who said DIC were going to sell LFC out after 7 years too isnt it? Unlike every other journo this guy is a trusted source I suppose.

Maybe harbi said to Symmonds ' I wish i could earn your BIG MONEY' or maybe 'I ve heard you've got a BIG MUMMY"and he misheard that as big monkey.

Good grief. Im happy to move on now Sarb. Im sure harbi will be cleared anyway and we'll never agree on what happened anyway given you starting point is that aussies are liars and cheats.

He wouldnt have said that as that is not Hindi. If you read the article Harbi insulted in Hindi, not in english. And contrary to what you said Harbi denied using the word monkey

[carlton]

that was a naff attempt to inject some humour into the conversation.out of interest would you know what it would sound like in hindi?

[Sarb]

No. Apparently he made an insult in hindi aimed at Symonds' mum that sounds like Big Monkey. I'm not sure what it could have been to be honest

[Jayesh87]

Crikey, we're hardly going to get an unbiased comment from you are we?

Umm the term 'Strongly denied' has been used in the media all the time, its not like i am the only one using it.

according to you the aussies are cheating scum.

Read the white font after i say that

never mind that clarke and hayden heard him- but the aussies are all liars so no joy there either.

so you were at the hearing were you? They were called as witnesses, **** know what they said. Its a known fact that the Aussies have hated Bhaji since 2001 and Ian Harvey admitted so LIVE on tv...

I havent read or seen or heard him deny calling Symonds a monkey and Im not interested in what his best mate sachin says either- he would say that wouldnt he?.

So because you haven't seen it, means it didn't happen? Did you watch any of the 2nd test, if you did you would have...

Sachin is on of the nicest people you will meet and IMO he wouldn't have defended Bhaji if he wasn't 100% sure in his own mind.

This is most of our senior players last tour of Australia, i doubt they would have agreed to walk away from it unless they were sure Bhaji has been wrongly accused.

He may have denied saying anything racist cos in his mind he doesnt believe monkey is a racist term. As i said harbi has form racially abusing Symmonds or am I making that up too ffs?

It's Bhaji not Harbi :bird:

This all gets way from the fact that so far India have been all tip and no iceberg in this series.

I don't even get that saying

First test we got battered, we suffered from only having 1 day of a warm up game.

Second test we let the Aussies of the hook and Hogg and Lee made us pay.

There has been some great cricket in this game, sadly it has been overshadowed.

And how the **** are we loosing to Boro

[carlton]

after watching that pitiful first half I am so deflated i cant even bring myself to argue with you. ALL i can say at the moment is Australia 2 India 0

[disco]

Good to see the Indians withdraw their complaint.

May be Australia will also..... NOT