Shergar

[Guest]

Wow what a list. Some ****ing greats in there, from my time, that I'd completely forgotten about. Cigar! Yank nag right there.

Celtic Swing was almost a household name if I remember rightly, but never quite lived up to its towering reputation (despite the subsequent high Timeform rating) - that was about the time I got into racing. Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Royal Anthem and Mark of Esteem were all horses I took great pleasure in backing, back in the day....

Celtic Swing I remember listening to BBC 5 Live back in the day and listening to whoever commented it at the time, it was ****ing brilliant.

[Hollowman]

Not sure about the timeform ratings though, though I can't really dispute its correctness, who am I to do that, but I am not sure how they arrive to this number. And what of the American horses, as Hollowman pointed out, Secretariat was a fabulous horse too and he won races on many shores, which surely makes him eligible enough for that list?

Timeform match weight to margins of defeat and victory, and then match that figure to age and then weight the results according to handicaps. It's not perfect, but you get a pretty decent list. They have gone back and retrospectively used the system on American horses apparently. Just looked up Secretariat and they scored it 144.

[Shaggy]

There was a Trip Crown stallion in the States after the war called Citation who they raced until he was six. Probably the only reason it isn't remembered as the greatest flat runner ever (or, at least, the greatest colonial flat runner). Won fifteen straight major stakes as a three year old, and something like 28 of its first 30 races. Should have put him to stud then.

They should've, aye, cos that's the way it goes, but in many ways I reckon that's why the sport doesn't always capture the nations' attention quite as much as it should - you get these ****ing greats who sometimes emerge as two year olds but more often assume greatness as three year olds, win everything in sight for a season (i.e. April-October, 6 ****ing months!) then retire to stud and disappear out of sight. If they hung around for a while you'd get mega heavyweight clashes of all the Classic winners of recent years. I realise that makes no financial sense and the sport probably wouldn't be sustainable without the bread that comes with early retirement and stud duties, but still....it's a pity.

Celtic Swing I remember listening to BBC 5 Live back in the day and listening to whoever commented it at the time, it was ****ing brilliant.

That would probably have been the legendary Sir Peter O'Sullevan. What a voice.

[greenbloodred]

Ah Sea The Stars....if only an animal could win sports personality of the year!!
But seriously what a horse and an incredible performance by John Oxx to have him at his peak for a whole season, pity he didn't go to Breeders Cup and spank the Yanks. Had a good craic a couple of years ago with AP O'Brien, impossible to prise much info out of him about the horses he had in training at the time but he spoke very fondly of a couple of his retired colts and surprisingly he said Hawk Wing was probably the most talented horse he's trained even though he didn't always perform when it mattered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXbsSCdGLs# and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG1xt...ature=related#

As for Shergar but Sea The Stars

[Guest]

Timeform match weight to margins of defeat and victory, and then match that figure to age and then weight the results according to handicaps. It's not perfect, but you get a pretty decent list. They have gone back and retrospectively used the system on American horses apparently. Just looked up Secretariat and they scored it 144.

This is really interesting. Just found something about age/handicaps stats for horse racing thoroughbreds, this is an interesting read and shows why they reserve races for 2/3/4 years old etc ... Never thought about it before.

http://www.flatstats.co.uk/articles/aw/age_bias.html

[Shaggy]

This is really interesting. Just found something about age/handicaps stats for horse racing thoroughbreds, this is an interesting read and shows why they reserve races for 2/3/4 years old etc ... Never thought about it before.

http://www.flatstats.co.uk/articles/aw/age_bias.html

Ah the old weight-for-age thing. Horse racing is great for pub debate as none of its systems (ratings, handicaps etc) are flawless but it's not an exact science and impossible to perfect. Racing is ****ing intriguing if you follow it in great detail - the major problem with it is of course after all the studying, calculations, hunches etc, you want to put your money where your ****ing mouth is and have courage in your convictions. Killer.

[Guest]

Ah the old weight-for-age thing. Horse racing is great for pub debate as none of its systems (ratings, handicaps etc) are flawless but it's not an exact science and impossible to perfect. Racing is ****ing intriguing if you follow it in great detail - the major problem with it is of course after all the studying, calculations, hunches etc, you want to put your money where your ****ing mouth is and have courage in your convictions. Killer.

Feels so good when your hunch tells you to punt for a horse you like and it wins. Sometimes the money is irrelevant.

My dad is a bit like that, he still bets, but he never ever gets addicted by it, he just loves the sport, and he gets more pleasure in seeing his judgement right rather than the money.

[Shaggy]

I just couldn't help myself, especially if I had some piss in me. Got wildly out of hand.

But yeah, what a buzz. It's one of the very ****ing best buzzes out there, and I've had some buzzes. Even better if you're at the track. I'd stopped punting (habitually anyway, I do still have a bet on football and the odd big race - it's out of my system now) by the time they removed tax on betting, so going to the track was especially ace for the tax-free punting. Standing by the rail, drunkenly roaring your nag on as it flies past you and past the winners' post in first - ****ing

[joyno]

****ing hate horses,ever since i was kid when one of them big teeth side eyed ****s with wierd feet ran off with me at a school fete, **** myself.... clowns, balloons, and horses fuk em.i hate them.

[Harv]

Two words.

Makybe Diva.

[badpiggy]

****ing hate horses,ever since i was kid when one of them big teeth side eyed ****s with wierd feet ran off with me at a school fete, **** myself.... clowns, balloons, and horses fuk em.i hate them.

[Shaggy]

Two words.

Makybe Diva.

Great horse but nowhere near the genuine all-time greats. Plus he was a stayer and stayers for whatever reason don't get the ratings the milers/mile-and-a-halfers get.

[Harv]

Great horse but nowhere near the genuine all-time greats. Plus he was a stayer and stayers for whatever reason don't get the ratings the milers/mile-and-a-halfers get.

she

3 Melbourne Cups in a row says you're wrong

Thats simply unheard of. She could run all day and had a heart the size of Ayers Rock.

Another great Aussie horse was Lonhro. Won 26 of 35 starts.

[Shaggy]

She then

Well, I don't see her in any all-time rating lists. Like I said stayers don't command the same respect, in ratings or stud terms. Stayers are just plodders, good, but plodders. The real class is in the milers.

[Guest]

She then

Well, I don't see her in any all-time rating lists. Like I said stayers don't command the same respect, in ratings or stud terms. Stayers are just plodders, good, but plodders. The real class is in the milers.

Melbourne cup is 3200 long metres am I right?