Freddie Flintoff

[Scratch]

I know exactly how good a bowler Botham was. I just think Flintoff edges it, that's all. It's a toss of a coin really. While Beefy was amazing and the best all-rounder around, along with Imran Khan, he was never the best bowler in the world. I think Flintoff was. I know who I would rather have faced.

So do i, Flintoff every day of the week. Yes, he was a pacey bowler, and cramped you up, but you knew what you were gonna get from him. With Botham, you knew it would swing, but you never knew how much or which way. Especially the younger Botham, before the back injury which curtailed both his pace and his ability to swing the ball as much. Pre that injury, Botham was up there with the likes of Amborse and Walsh.

Hell, even a quick look at the stats (never the best, but Beefy played in an era when cricket was more competitve, i feel...West Indies at their peak, Aussies being Aussies and the sub-continent boys able to keep up with the best...none of them Bangladeshy whipping boys or Zimbabwean whelps ) shows what i mean. Beefy's first 200 wickets came at an average of just over 21...that is world class bowling in anyone's book...Flintoff never would have got near him.

[Shaggy]

Raw, fearsome pace, aggression....Flintoff would beat the **** out of you and you wouldn't last a ball. Just far too quick. Amateur batsmen would stand a chance for a ball or two with Botham. Botham had to take more risks to take wickets, and hence bowled more bad balls. Virtually every ball Flintoff bowled was 90mph and on the money. Professional players, Test players...I could understand them saying Botham, but for amateurs like you or I, Botham would be infinitely preferable. Facing Flintoff would be terrifying. Botham wouldn't. They'd both take your wicket, but Flintoff would make you **** all over your whites.

Also I covered the stats, no-one is arguing about that. The stats show Botham took loads more wickets, no arguments.

[Hollowman]

Anyone remember the Freddie banter with Tino Best?

Mind the windows.

[Shaggy]

Classic

[red g]

on talksport now.

[CJ]

have you seen his laughing when they guy got out though

[captainfog]

Fred was an awesome player and will be sadly missed. Gutted he didn't have the legs to become an all time great like Botham. Botham didn't exactly look after his body and if anything would have abused it more and yet he had a long career.

As for the bowling comparison, this would be my take on it.

Botham before he lost his pace > Fred
Beefy without so much pace < Fred

Shaggy, you're right, Fred should have taken many more wickets. He was our best bowler of the last decade but he missed the outside edge soooo many times.

[Harv]

Average at best.

[Alex]

He was a great player, but never consistantly great. He had a golden patch over the 2 ashes series. Lots of all rounders better though. Its not all about how you perform in the Ashes.

Will be missed by England, need another all rounder to step up now.

[EwarWoo]

When you talk about stats it makes little sense with freddie. He always stood up for his country during sticky games, even when only half fit, and took his rests during gimme games when he wasn't as badly needed, the games which generally end up being little other than stat padding. That makes his stats a little stilted.

Not without exception of course, but far more than any other cricketer of his generation.

Average at best.

One of them there sour Aussies

Its not all about how you perform in the Ashes.

I'd disagree partially on the grounds that his Ashes performances have got a new generation interested in cricket and we'll be reaping the rewards of that within a decade, and if all goes well with that generation for many decades to come.

Much of what international cricket is about is to fetch some glamour to get youngsters switching to the sport.

[Shaggy]

Besides it's not as if he was only good in the Ashes. That's a fallacy.

[CJ]

i read on the BBC that his foot landed facing the wrong way when bowling (no i dont mean 180 degrees the wrong way) this put huge stress on him and the writier was surprised why it wasnt coached out of him at a young age.

the inference i read was it was technique that caused the injuries

[Alex]

Besides it's not as if he was only good in the Ashes. That's a fallacy.

No i didnt mean he was only good in the ashes, but he was never constistantly great like Botham was to be considered up there with him.

Dont get me wrong he was a talisman for the team for a while. But yesterday listening to the radio and watching the TV they made it sound like it was the death of English Cricket

[Shaggy]

Well apart from last summer's Ashes he's barely played for three years anyway, England have moved on just fine without him.

[Fernandinho]

Average at best.

cunt