Boxing

[Zapater]

I don't think that Khan is that good, but I definitely don't question his heart. Always thought that criticism was harsh, maybe in training (I don't know) you hear things about him not training at all outside of training camps, no running, gym etc. When you consider that he was out on his feet for 2 and a half rounds against Maidana, and still managed to stay on his feet to get the decision. Many refs would have stopped that fight, but Khan hung in there and got the nod. That's definitely not easy against a relentless, big puncher like Maidana when you're completely ****ed.

I'm in the camp that doesn't particularly like him, but I also agree that there is a racism element to the general dislike of him. I think he's a bit of a prick, most professional sportsmen are but people go over and above to complain about him. Maybe not the media, but definitely the general public.

[marcus50bucks]

I have to say I am surprised you question his heart though. One thing I accuse him of is showing too much heart at times by trying to get up too quickly and go toe to toe when he is hurt. He should stay down for longer to get his senses back and then box out the round to save himself.

He is an elite fighter now imo and I still do think much of the hate in the uk is down to race/religion. A quick trawl on many sites and forums will give a clear indication of this.

No doubt about it. I'm a member on a couple of boxing forums myself so I see it brother.

[Keyser Soze]

Of course Khan is an elite fighter, great hand speed and heart. His last two victories where he's worked to a plan have been especially good.
Anyone that says otherwise is letting their personal hatred of him impair their judgement.

Does he mouth off, of course he does - which boxer doesn't? its the way boxers ensure they get noticed and get the big fights.

[Tee]

I don't think that Khan is that good, but I definitely don't question his heart. Always thought that criticism was harsh, maybe in training (I don't know) you hear things about him not training at all outside of training camps, no running, gym etc. When you consider that he was out on his feet for 2 and a half rounds against Maidana, and still managed to stay on his feet to get the decision. Many refs would have stopped that fight, but Khan hung in there and got the nod. That's definitely not easy against a relentless, big puncher like Maidana when you're completely ****ed.

I'm in the camp that doesn't particularly like him, but I also agree that there is a racism element to the general dislike of him. I think he's a bit of a prick, most professional sportsmen are but people go over and above to complain about him. Maybe not the media, but definitely the general public.

No doubt about it. I'm a member on a couple of boxing forums myself so I see it brother.

Of course Khan is an elite fighter, great hand speed and heart. His last two victories where he's worked to a plan have been especially good.
Anyone that says otherwise is letting their personal hatred of him impair their judgement.

Does he mouth off, of course he does - which boxer doesn't? its the way boxers ensure they get noticed and get the big fights.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I have to say I am surprised you question his heart though. One thing I accuse him of is showing too much heart at times by trying to get up too quickly and go toe to toe when he is hurt. He should stay down for longer to get his senses back and then box out the round to save himself.

He is an elite fighter now imo and I still do think much of the hate in the uk is down to race/religion. A quick trawl on many sites and forums will give a clear indication of this.

I do not think he is close to being an elite fighter. For me elite fighters are very few and far between. They are the genuine best of the best. The kind of fighter that you would fancy to do the business against anyone in their division.


I would go as far as to say that some division nowadays do not even have one elite fighter in them.


Khan for me is not at that level and I do not think he will ever reach it. But plenty of good fighter, many of them world champions, would not have reached elite status either imho so it is not as though it is some kind of put down when I say I do not think he is at an elite level.


Marvin Hagler would be one who I would regard as having been an Elite level middleweight. Nigel Benn would be one that I would not regard as having been elite level. Both men were world champions, both men beat som very good fighter, both men had a few losses in their career, but only one of them would I have fancied, when both were at their peak in their respective eras, to have been able to go in against anyone in their division and win.


Khan for me is a Nigel Benn level fighter. Which basically means I would expect him to have a good chance against most fighters in his weight class, but would expect him to falter against the very best in the division. To be an elite fighter in my eyes one of the things you have to be is to be able to, or be regarded as being able to, take out anyone else in the division if you and that fighter both meet at your very bests.






As for the race thing. I thought you were referring to how he is received in the US and if his muslim links were an issue there. As for how he is perceived by the general public in the UK, well I really cannot say if racism is an issue there with regards to him, but if UK based guys like you and others in this thread are saying that he is getting stick from people in the UK on that front then I will bow to your experiences.

But are you guys talking about hardcore boxing fans or just Johnny come lately blow in types who surface for a big event and that's about it?

Personally if someone gets hung up on a fighter's skin colour, creed, nationality or anything like that, then that person is a fool and only showing up their own ignorance.


I don't hate Khan or anything like that. Kind of difficult to hate someone that has done nothing to you, but although I don't hold the outside the ring Khan in high esteem that does not mean a jot as to how I see the in ring Khan. There have been plenty of magnificent fighters that I thought were utter knobs but their personalities never got in the way of acknowledging their talent.


So for me he is a good to potentially very good fighter, but one that will never be a truly elite fighter. Of course if he went on to clean up the division, meaning he beats Mayweather at least once, and then retained his title against the best challengers then my opinion could change.

[rodo]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzoKptTcEvM"]Ringside Special - RICKY HATTON - YouTube[/ame]

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I do not think he is close to being an elite fighter. For me elite fighters are very few and far between. They are the genuine best of the best. The kind of fighter that you would fancy to do the business against anyone in their division.


I would go as far as to say that some division nowadays do not even have one elite fighter in them.


Khan for me is not at that level and I do not think he will ever reach it. But plenty of good fighter, many of them world champions, would not have reached elite status either imho so it is not as though it is some kind of put down when I say I do not think he is at an elite level.


Marvin Hagler would be one who I would regard as having been an Elite level middleweight. Nigel Benn would be one that I would not regard as having been elite level. Both men were world champions, both men beat som very good fighter, both men had a few losses in their career, but only one of them would I have fancied, when both were at their peak in their respective eras, to have been able to go in against anyone in their division and win.


Khan for me is a Nigel Benn level fighter. Which basically means I would expect him to have a good chance against most fighters in his weight class, but would expect him to falter against the very best in the division. To be an elite fighter in my eyes one of the things you have to be is to be able to, or be regarded as being able to, take out anyone else in the division if you and that fighter both meet at your very bests.






As for the race thing. I thought you were referring to how he is received in the US and if his muslim links were an issue there. As for how he is perceived by the general public in the UK, well I really cannot say if racism is an issue there with regards to him, but if UK based guys like you and others in this thread are saying that he is getting stick from people in the UK on that front then I will bow to your experiences.

But are you guys talking about hardcore boxing fans or just Johnny come lately blow in types who surface for a big event and that's about it?

Personally if someone gets hung up on a fighter's skin colour, creed, nationality or anything like that, then that person is a fool and only showing up their own ignorance.


I don't hate Khan or anything like that. Kind of difficult to hate someone that has done nothing to you, but although I don't hold the outside the ring Khan in high esteem that does not mean a jot as to how I see the in ring Khan. There have been plenty of magnificent fighters that I thought were utter knobs but their personalities never got in the way of acknowledging their talent.


So for me he is a good to potentially very good fighter, but one that will never be a truly elite fighter. Of course if he went on to clean up the division, meaning he beats Mayweather at least once, and then retained his title against the best challengers then my opinion could change.

"Elite Fighter" is definitely much overused - particularly by Froch about himself unless elite actually means genetically blessed with great stamina,power and phenomenal punch resistance which helps overcome total disregard for technique until you meet someone good.
Khan definitely gets a lot of hate from your man in the pub fan for his ethnicity.

[Doc_Piptorious]

"Elite Fighter" is definitely much overused - particularly by Froch about himself unless elite actually means genetically blessed with great stamina,power and phenomenal punch resistance which helps overcome total disregard for technique until you meet someone good.
Khan definitely gets a lot of hate from your man in the pub fan for his ethnicity.

I agree. It is a term that gets used in boxing similar to how world class gets banded about in soccer. I know it is subjective and different people will have their own idea as to what makes an elite fighter, but I am a bit of an old school type when it comes to terms like elite or world class, and that probably means that I sometimes sound like I don't rate a good or really good fighter when the reality is that I do acknowledge their talents but just don't see them as being the very best.


Must admit the Khan stuff about his ethnicity has surprised and somewhat saddened me to read on here. It's a sport that has long had huge mix of ethnicities and I though that a lot of the backward shyte had started to work it's way out of the mix. Then again I suppose it is more a reflection on society than anything else but it is still sad to read.


Not rating a boxer based on his ability/talents is fine in my eyes. Not rating him as a person based on his words/actions outside the ring is fair game also in my opinion. Same goes for promoters, trainers, fitness coaches and al the rest involved with the game. But bringing it down to ethnicities is just something I do not get personally.


If I am watching a bout I don't give a toss where the fighters are from, what colour they are, what god they pray to, or even what their favourite type of biscuit is. Same goes if someone was in a camp to be trained. All that mattered was their willingness to train and learn. Have little time for people that make issues out of ethnicity or who hate someone they have never met simply because the other person is from somewhere else or looks different.

[Tee]

I hear you Jaco

Understand your interpretation of elite is different to mine. Totally agree that he is not elite as you see it.

It is not nice to mention the race element but it is what it is. Saddens me to read the vile comments people post on social media in the UK, but it makes me happy to see how well he is received in the US. A stark and telling contrast.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I hear you Jaco

Understand your interpretation of elite is different to mine. Totally agree that he is not elite as you see it.

It is not nice to mention the race element but it is what it is. Saddens me to read the vile comments people post on social media in the UK, but it makes me happy to see how well he is received in the US. A stark and telling contrast.

Yep is just differing opinions. One man's rubbish is another man's treasure and all that.


As for him in the US, I don't think he is rated overly high but what I don't think is a big issue is the fact he is a muslim and it is kind of odd in a way because certain sections in the US have terribly illogical hang ups over the word Muslim.

Now I can only speak for folk I know that live in the US and the circles they keep, but Khan in those circles is judged on his actions and his words, and who he does or does not pray to simply does not matter a jot. I know when I do go over and get involved in a boxing chat that I have not heard anything negative said about him other than about inring stuff or stuff to do with something he has said.


I wonder what with happened in Paris last week, and with political knobs like UKIP churning out their anti foreigner rubbish will we hear more of what you guys are saying gets said about Khan. Is laughable, and not in a ha ha way, that a guy born in Bolton, a guy who is british, is getting stick in the UK because of his ethnicity.

Kind of reminds me of the types in Ireland who will shout "Brits out", whilst clad in a Celtic/Liverpool/Manc top and supping a pint of Tenants, and then they stagger home to watch Coronation Street or the XFactor.

[Chazza]

Joshua's fight on the 31st Jan is off due to him having a stress fracture in his back.

[Doc_Piptorious]

The mention of Joshua reminded me that Wilder is fighting Stiverne for the WBC strap this coming weekend

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The mention of Joshua reminded me that Wilder is fighting Stiverne for the WBC strap this coming weekend

That will be explosive for sure.

[Zapater]

My perception of how he is received in the US (could be totally wrong) is that they think that he's good not great, but due to the excitement of his fights, partially due to his chinnyness it means that it's worthwhile watching him fight, hence he is well received there.

On him being 'elite' or not, it's not for debate IMO. His chin doesn't allow him to get into that category independent of his other skills. He's wobbled every second or third fight when up against decent yet not spectacular opposition. He was almost taken out by Julio Diaz for example. Credit to him that he finds away to stay on his feet and get to the decision, but that for me is not the way that top level fighters go about putting a fight together. If referees were a little bit less generous to him or he got hit once or twice more he could easily be looking at double the number of losses on his record.

If there were one belt per division, I'm not sure if he'd have been a 'world champ', perhaps at light welter there for a little while. But his performances against other good boxers has proven he'll always struggle. To think of the better guys in and around his division in recent years, I'm not sure if he makes the top 10. I hate fantasy scenarios... Mosley, Floyd, Pacquiao, Danny Garcia, De la Hoya, Marquez, Cotto, Gatti, Margarito, Cesar Chavez etc for me would all beat Khan. And these aren't all 'all time greats' necessarily, just good fighters in the division in the last decade or so in the light-welter to welterweight divisions. I don't see him having favourable results against other good current guys if he were to have a rematch with Maidana it'd be pretty 50-50, I'm positive Matthysse would knock him out and Bradley would be close (it'd be an awful fight to watch).

With the number of good boxers we've had in the weight classes recently, in the last 15 years or so, I think it'd be an insult to many of them to classify Khan at world class as for me there are many much better names out there whom never will.

[Doc_Piptorious]

That will be explosive for sure.

Is a bout that I am mildly curious about.

Wilder has size, probably hand speed, and strength on his side, but Stiverne I suspect has the far better chin and is not a bad hitter when he decides to let go. Plus Stiverne throws a textbook left hook so could be interesting when Wilder misses with one of the wide swings that he throws most rounds.


Not checked the odds on the fight yet but would imagine Wilder is the odds on favourite. Might be the kind of fight where a little bet on the fighter with the longer odds could be worthwhile.


Wilder should win, but Stiverne's patient style and that left hook have me wondering if there I a little bit of an upset on the way.