Boxing

[fidget]

Ref spares Usyk/Turki/judges' blushes.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Some battle last night but it was massively uncomfortable to watch for those last two rounds, it became less of a contest - more of a macabre gore fest. Like said previously, I really fear for Wardley's health following that beating - how in god's earth was he still standing? It was a brutal end.

I can only assume they were giving Wardley the benefit of the doubt and the "opportunity" to use his one punch power, but everyone involved from the ref to the corner should be looking at their decisions and their duty of care.

If they are that bad at their jobs and could not see what I am sure was obvious to all the non boxing folk watching, then none of them should ever be involved with the welfare of a fighter at any level again imo.

There is nothing that excuses leaving that fight go on for it's final eight or so minutes. Wardley was cooked. The man was done and getting by on sheer toughness (mental and physical) and nothing else.

Wardley could come undone in the coming days or weeks after such a beating or he might take a fight or two against so called easy fights and the damage from last night then gets exploded like a hidden land mine by the fists of a journeyman.

Genuinely angry at that final eight minutes. It also takes the shine off of a very good win for Dubois for me. A lot of the talk now is about the brutality caused by the fight not being stopped sooner rather than all the talk being about the heart shown by Dubois and about how he turned the fight on it's head. Was a proper big win for Dubois and would have been even better had those looking after Wardley stopped it two rounds earlier.

Do think Dubois is goiung to get a few receipts though if he ends up in the ring gainst Usyk again if he does some of the franky savage stuff he did with a few of his jabs when Wardley was initially starting to falter. That jabbing and hooking to the neck and throat is something that will see a better fighter **** him up for doing to them. Might just have been a heat of the night type thing that he started doing last night when in the midst of battle but was not good to see such a dirty and dangerous thing being done.


To be honest I wish Wardley had gone down and taken the knee a few times. Would have bought him a bit more time and also might have forced the hand of those "looking after" him. Yeah he would have lost a few points in doing so, but it is a good tactic. Dubois did it in the third and for me that is what gave Dubois the platform to come back as well as he did.

[Daniel 7]

Some battle last night but it was massively uncomfortable to watch for those last two rounds, it became less of a contest - more of a macabre gore fest. Like said previously, I really fear for Wardley's health following that beating - how in god's earth was he still standing? It was a brutal end.

I can only assume they were giving Wardley the benefit of the doubt and the "opportunity" to use his one punch power, but everyone involved from the ref to the corner should be looking at their decisions and their duty of care.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I went and agree completely with Doc.
Disgraceful from Ben Davison. The ref was desperate for the corner or doctor to pull Wardley out. I don't think Wardley would have complained even though he has no quit in him.
Wardley's got an incredible chin and I think the blows he took last night will have lasting damage. I had Dubois by stoppage at 13/8.

Congrats to Zak Chelli as well.

I think I must have spent six to eight minutes worth of rounds shouting at the screen for it to be stopped.

All I could see with each undefended shot was the chances of dementia or similar in Wardley's future and even worse some sort of more immediate impact either in the ring or from a clot in the coming days.


I have zero criticism for Dubois as he was fighting to the bell or ref's call each round but all of those that could have stopped it utterly failed Wardley.

If Wardley comes out of this with no serious damage, be it something that shows quickly or something that rears it's terrible head in the future, then it will be a blessing.


Wardley was brave, too brave, and too tough, however even the bravest of fighters will understand a fight being stopped on their behalf once the cold light of the next day shines on them.



When the ref is this covered in a fighter's sweat and blood during a fight, you know questions need to be asked ffs.





And when that injured fighter is left to stumble out to answer the bell for the start of rounds you know the ball has been badly dropped in terms of stopping it for the safety of said fighter.

[fidget]

I went and agree completely with Doc.
Disgraceful from Ben Davison. The ref was desperate for the corner or doctor to pull Wardley out. I don't think Wardley would have complained even though he has no quit in him.
Wardley's got an incredible chin and I think the blows he took last night will have lasting damage. I had Dubois by stoppage at 13/8.

Congrats to Zak Chelli as well.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Cannot knock either fighter and Dubois showed massive heart to win after how the fight started for him, however, and for me this was a very big problem last night, the ref, the doctor at ringside and Wardley's corner were a ****ing disgrace.

The fight should have been stopped at least a round sooner, possible two rounds sooner.


The beating Wardley was getting and the shots he was taken are potentially career shortening ones. He was being hit too often and too hard for too long imo.

The man showed crazy levels of endurance and grit, but it is on his corner, the ref and the ring doctor to protect fighters from themselves and last night Wardley needed that care and protection and they all failed him. A fighter wanting to continue under such conditions should not be who gets to decide a fight gets prolonged.

Great tear up of a fight, both fighters giving their all and showing immesnse resolve and courage but the lack of proper care for Wardley left a very sour taste in the mouth for me.


Would have been no less of a war and spectacle had it been ended two rounds earlier.

[marcus50bucks]

How is this thread quiet after what we witnessed last night? Good grief.

All I can say is wow, what an epic fight.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Potentially the best fight of the year about to start in the next 30 or so mins.


Inoue v Nakatani

[Doc_Piptorious]

Hope not.

[fidget]

Ok I'm sure we'll revisit this discussion in the years to come.

[Doc_Piptorious]

So you’re basically agreeing with me.

I'm not as I don't think he has it all. I think it is far too soon to think a very much untested guy is even close to that.

I think he might have the qualities needed to stand out in what is currently a weak division, but I think there are serious questions about how open he leaves himself, about his in ring IQ when he meets someone that is really good on that front, and I think there are questions yet about how he takes a shot.

The latter point can be asked of any fighter, but until they get in with someone that connects and puts them under sustained pressure there is no way to know if physical durability is there and more importantly imo there is no way to know if there is a mental durability, as in an under fire durability, present.

The leaving himself open one I have zero doubt that there are coaches that are zeroing in on that. Is just a very obvious one and one an average heavyweight with quick hands could exploit, as is a feint to advance when Itauma is looking to set up a right hook. He likes that shot a lot and every time he looks to set it up it stands out. Now the level of fighter he has been in against thus far are not good or quick footed enough to exploit that, but the better guys could and will if he does it with them.


He has looked good, but that has been against a mix of slow moving and often very technically limited fighters.

People did the same with Joshua and talked him up like he would be an unstoppable monster. I recall some LOLs coming my way when I raised doubts about him earlier on in his career and when I compared him to Bruce Seldon with regards to some aspects of his skill set and conditioning.

I think Moses Itauma is a more rounded fighter at 21 than Joshua was at 25 or 26, but I also think that by their 14th fights, both were being fed, for the most part, low level threats whilst being themselves hyped as world level talents.

What is in his favour is the weak division that I have mentioned a few times. That will negate a lot of flaws, but he needs a serious jump in quality now. Not someone who is a name but has been shot for years, not someone with a padded record being presented as "top class" but he needs to target a Dubois, a Wardley or a Parker. Guys that are still live fighters, guys that are beatable but only if you are switched on and bringing your own A game and of course as long as you have the ability that is being spoken of about you.

If Moses Itauma is as good as we are being fed, then he beats one of that three and could then use that to beat the has been big names so he gets a few belts.

If he wants a pay day he fights a bum and chases Usyk before the summer of 2027. Usyk will still have enough in the tank to school him but a big payday could be had and then once Usyk retires he could go bum hunting against a Wilder or Joshua (fighters that are shot but that have name value)

And I know a counter arguement is that he is 21 and should fight stiffs for a year or two more, but if you are good enough at 21 then you kick start the moving up levels process so that you are a genuine title holder at 22 or 23.

Thinking about it more the list of fighters I would want him to go after woyld be

UK

Dubois
Wardley
Joyce



Non UK

Wilder
Parker
Zhang


The first two on each list for name value and three of that four also for that step up in quality (Wilder is nothing more than a name)

The last name on each list is to go against a slow moving but potentialy heavy hitting guy (Zhang being the much better as Joyce would more target practise)



If I had to pick one name based only on being a potentially make or break test and remove the name value side of things, then Kabayel would be my choice. Decent hitter without being devastating, but clever and agile enough to expose flaws if they are there and as such good enough to make it a fight that has to be worked for in terms of result.


So guess that means I have four gatekeepers now - Kabayel, Dubois, Wardley and Parker

[fidget]

So you’re basically agreeing with me.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Went to watch Moses Itauma box last night.
The kid’s got it all

Way too early to say that imo.


He has a lot of tools and being a southpaw with good footwork will go a long way in aiding him if his attitude to training and learning stays good, plus I like that he does of lot of things closer to how a middleweight would try to do them rather than doing them like a heavyweight, but think a fast handed guy gives him trouble at present as he tends to leave himself open a lot.

Also think he has the luxury of being matched very well against guys that are a bit slower than him and that are also only so so when it comes to footwork so he can sit back and catch them with a right hook coming in, or get them as they move back after a miss.

Think Usyk would utterly school him (outside of somehow catching Usyk early) after a round or two of Itauma looking lively (ie Usyk doing this thing of taking a few rounds of timing his oppoent).

Moses Itauma does have potential though and with the division looking really weak other than a 39 yo Usyk, there is scope there for Itauma to go after guys whose names are much bigger than their quality like Joshua, Wilder, Parker etc and also go after a guy like Fury whose size will not always make him awkward for better but smaller (than him) fighters.

Think Itauma also has another thing I realy like and that is his size. For me the perfect heavweight sits in the 6'3 to 6'5 height range as you can have a frame that allows you enough weight to go with the bigger guys but at the same time that frame will allow you to be athletic enough to adapt styles/qualities more associated with cruiserweight or light heavyweight (ie my copy a middleweight comment from earlier).


What I think would potentially be a cracking fight is Itauma vs Lenny, sorry I mean Dubois. Dubois in the mood he was in against Joshua. Think Itauma would beat him but that Dubois would test Itauma in the face of aggression.


Wardley vs Itauma would be another good match up imo as Wardley is a clever heavyweight imo (though largely untested/unproved imo as well). Think he and Dubois would be good gatekeepers to help determine how good Itauma is as both have qualities that would expose Itauma badly if he is being protected/fed stiffs.

[fidget]

Went to watch Moses Itauma box last night.
The kid’s got it all

[Buzzo]

I hadn’t realised that two of the fatalities were members of Joshua’s team who were in the car with him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/articles/cz949z07xxdo