Boxing

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agree entirely with Jaco's post - good to see Haye got some praise and credit too. Great cruiserweight to watch - his win v Mormeck was marvellous stuff. Got a lot going for him against men his size or thereabouts but I think Joshua would just have too much size, aggression and power for him.

Even though it'll never happen

Not just a great cruiser to watch, he was a really good cruiser full stop. He was a proper warrior at time,s and he had the character to use set backs to fire himself up and improve.

It is just sad how he changed after becoming a heavy because although he is not a giant heavy he is still a big man in boxing terms and he had the physical tools to become another Holyfield imo. Actually if he had a similar in-ring mentality as Holyfield had in his prime, then I think Haye would have been a better heavy than Holyfield as he really had all the physical tools to be so and he usually came into the ring about a half stone heavier (at heavyweight obvs) than prime Holyfield did.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I reckon a peak Michael Grant would have taken him to the cleaners tbh

He may well have done, but that level of fighter is what Wilder would have been 20 years ago.

He would have been allowed to build up a nice looking record that would see him getting hyped up as some sort of monster, and then sold as a genuine threat for the one of the real big boys of the division.

The only problem now in 2015 is that there is only one big boy in the entire division and Wilder (and his people) would not make enough money if Wilder were fed to Wlad as Wilder's rep as a monster would be gone once Wlad (even the current somewhat slowed down version of Wlad) finished with him.

[Chazza]

So Fury, Haye or Joshua

I know who Spudgun will go for

Fury was talking up Price on his Twitter the other day which was odd.

[fidget]

Think Haye would be two fights too soon for Joshua to be favourite.
Once he's beaten a "name" it'd up his confidence and dent Haye's enough for the odds to turn.
I like the way Joshua is being developed. He's still an infant in heavyweight years but has great potential.
Mad how ****e the heavyweight scene is in general though.

[Doc_Piptorious]

So Fury, Haye or Joshua

I know who Spudgun will go for

Fury was talking up Price on his Twitter the other day which was odd.

Wasn't he saying something about how Price could become the new Wlad?

He was talking up a load of UK heavies and going on about how they should fight each other.

Sounded a hell of a lot like someone trying to make nothing match ups sound bigger than what they would be so that they would be lower risk but bigger payday bouts.

Then again Fury is another who 20 years ago would have been filler on a quality boxer's record but who in 2015 is trying to pass himself off as a genuine quality heavy who would have stood out in any era.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Think Haye would be two fights too soon for Joshua to be favourite.
Once he's beaten a "name" it'd up his confidence and dent Haye's enough for the odds to turn.
I like the way Joshua is being developed. He's still an infant in heavyweight years but has great potential.
Mad how ****e the heavyweight scene is in general though.

Don't think anyone here thinks that Joshua would be the favourite if he and Haye met this year.


But I do think that he brings to the table exactly what unsettles Haye in the ring so the chances of an upset would be that bit greater than it should be given the talent level of the two men.

[Chazza]

Wasn't he saying something about how Price could become the new Wlad?

He was talking up a load of UK heavies and going on about how they should fight each other.

Sounded a hell of a lot like someone trying to make nothing match ups sound bigger than what they would be so that they would be lower risk but bigger payday bouts.

Then again Fury is another who 20 years ago would have been filler on a quality boxer's record but who in 2015 is trying to pass himself off as a genuine quality heavy who would have stood out in any era.

It was weird especially as he then tweeted that the Klitshcko fight would be in Tokyo October time.

I agree it did seem like he was after a domestic fight to try and make a few quid.

[Doc_Piptorious]

It was weird especially as he then tweeted that the Klitshcko fight would be in Tokyo October time.

I agree it did seem like he was after a domestic fight to try and make a few quid.

Yeah saw that. He gave the fact he has a world title shot just one tweet, then started to churn out tweets about the various british heavyweights and how he and they should all fight one another.


For a guy that tries to make out that he is a great fan of the history of boxing he does not seem to notice or care that his upcoming bout with Wlad will be a record breaking fight as it will see Wlad become the heavyweight who has taken part in the most heavyweight title fights.

Right now Wlad and Joe Louis are tied on 27 heavyweight title fights apiece.

Wlad is also closing in on the record for most title defences at heavyweight as he is two defences behind the record holder, again Joe Louis.


It is actually amazing how dominant the Klitschko brothers have been, and also amazing how little credit they get for it.

Wlad is tied with Joe Louis for the most appearances in heavyweight title fights.

Wlad comes second of all time for heavyweight title defences. Joe Louis is number one.

Wlad is second of all time for the length of time he spent as a heavyweight champ. Jou Louis again is number one.


Vitali is second of all time for KO percentage at heavyweight and he is only second by just over half of one percent. Rocky Marciano is number one.

Vitali is eight of all time for time spent as a heavyweight champ.


The brothers get slagged off, and their style of fighting has not always been easy on the eye, but they have been genuine top class heavyweights during their reigns and I think they could have been dropped into any era and been competitive for titles, especially Vitali.

[spud_gun]

Not just a great cruiser to watch, he was a really good cruiser full stop. He was a proper warrior at time,s and he had the character to use set backs to fire himself up and improve.

It is just sad how he changed after becoming a heavy because although he is not a giant heavy he is still a big man in boxing terms and he had the physical tools to become another Holyfield imo. Actually if he had a similar in-ring mentality as Holyfield had in his prime, then I think Haye would have been a better heavy than Holyfield as he really had all the physical tools to be so and he usually came into the ring about a half stone heavier (at heavyweight obvs) than prime Holyfield did.

That's a pretty bold statement.

Prime Holyfield is an ATG heavyweight. Fantastic chin and heart.

[spud_gun]

Think Haye would be two fights too soon for Joshua to be favourite.
Once he's beaten a "name" it'd up his confidence and dent Haye's enough for the odds to turn.
I like the way Joshua is being developed. He's still an infant in heavyweight years but has great potential.
Mad how ****e the heavyweight scene is in general though.

The fight isn't going to happen BUT if they were to fight and Haye were to land one of his right hand bombs on Joshua it'd tell us all just how far Joshua is going to go in the heavyweight division.

[Doc_Piptorious]

That's a pretty bold statement.

Prime Holyfield is an ATG heavyweight. Fantastic chin and heart.

It is a bold statement, but physically I think Haye had everything Holyfield had and a bit more.

But what he lacked was Holyfield's mentality, and Holyfield's heart. If he had a similar mentality to prime Holyfield then I think that Haye had the physical gifts to have bettered Holyfield's legacy.


That's how big a shame I think Haye's time at heavyweight has been. He had the physical tools to fight like how a middleweight does. He had everything to bring that style to the big table save for inside his head.

A heavyweight who could fight in a style akin to that of a middleweight is a beast of a fighter and I think Haye threw away the chance of being such a heavy.

Ali was such a fighter for stages of his career. Tyson was another. Holyfield had a spell where he was a big man fighting like a middleweight. At the top end of the heavies it is such a rare thing to see, sure you get guys like Chris Byrd who brought a lot of what I am talking about (he had everything save for the power) but Haye is going to be one of those guys that will always have a big question mark over his time as a heavy and he will only be remembered as a lesser and short term belt holder as a heavy.

I can remember being quite excited when I first heard he was moving up to heavy because I thought he would bring what we saw against the likes of Fragomeni and Mormeck into the heavyweight ranks.

Instead we got a hell of a lot of talk about knocking people out which normally got followed by dull safety first performances. Mad to think that he was only 31 when he had his last fight at heavy.

[spud_gun]

Agree that Haye's time at heavyweight has been nothing other than a dissapointment save for the fight against Valuev for obvious reasons and also the Ruiz fight.

However I think you're reaching with regards to the Haye / Holyfield comparisons. Haye is a fantastic physical specimen of that there is no doubt but he simply didn't have the intangibles that make for great champions.

Haye was always a safety first boxer at heavy. Booth conditioned him to be such. I think the only fight of his that stands out at heavy was John Ruiz. Ruiz was a hard, durable man probably a little past his prime but Haye put on a show against him.

I watched the Haye / Enzo Mac fight a few weeks back. Incredible to think that Enzo was to many people the favourite going into that fight. Don't think Enzo was ever quite the same after it. Couple of massive right hands landed early and Enzo appeared to take them well enough but

I remember the Mormeck fight as well. For any British boxer to go to a champions own back yard and relieve him of the belt(s) is a fantastic achievement. Should be remembered though that Haye did his best Zab Judah impression in the 4th round of that fight......anyhow i'm rambling...no idea what point i'm trying to make at this stage other than comparing Haye to Holyfield at heavy ought to be an arrestable offence .....night.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agree that Haye's time at heavyweight has been nothing other than a dissapointment save for the fight against Valuev.

However I think you're reaching with regards to the Haye / Holyfield comparisons. Haye is a fantastic physical specimen of that there is no doubt but he simply didn't have the intangibles that make for great champions.

Haye was always a safety first boxer at heavy. Booth conditioned him to be such. I think the only fight of his that stands out at heavy was John Ruiz. Ruiz was a hard, durable man probably a little past his prime but Haye put on a show against him.

I watched the Haye / Enzo Mac fight a few weeks back. Incredible to think that Enzo was to many people the favourite going into that fight. Don't think Enzo was ever quite the same after it. Couple of massive right hands landed early and Enzo appeared to take them well enough but

I remember the Mormeck fight as well. For any British boxer to go to a champions own back yard and relieve him of the belt(s) is a fantastic achievement. Should be remembered though that Haye did his best Zab Judah impression in the 4th round of that fight......anyhow i'm rambling...no idea what point i'm trying to make at this stage other than comparing Haye to Holyfield at heavy ought to be an arrestable offence .....night.

But that is kind of the point I am making. I am saying that if Haye had the same strength of character and will to win that Holyfield did, then I think that Haye would have gone on to be even better as I think Haye had Holyfield trumped on the physical front.

Is really a "what if?" type musing from me more than anything else, but I do think that Haye's short heavyweight career was a wasted opportunity.

Have to say that I don't think that the win over Ruiz was anything other than what it was, and that is a win over a horribly shot fighter. The Valuev win was a terrible fight and one of Haye's worst safety first performances.

[spud_gun]

Here's a treat

Benn was 22 - 0 at the time and knocking people out in double quick time.

Watson was fairly unheralded.

Benn was massive favourite though a few in the know fancied Watson and went out on a limb to back him prior to the fight.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAR8PYfe8Zw"]BOXING: Nigel Benn V Michael Watson - Classic British Battles - YouTube[/ame]

[fidget]

Here's a treat

Benn was 22 - 0 at the time and knocking people out in double quick time.

Watson was fairly unheralded.

Benn was massive favourite though a few in the know fancied Watson and went out on a limb to back him prior to the fight.

BOXING: Nigel Benn V Michael Watson - Classic British Battles - YouTube

Think I got 5-2 from memory