Boxing

[Chris]

Not even close to being that. Ward was coming back after nearly a two year lay off and as such a Paul Smith level opponent is more than acceptable.

Was it ****, it was a horrific fight as proven.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Was it ****, it was a horrific fight as proven.

Yes it turned out to be a poor fight but it is unrealistic to have expected Ward to have gone in against one of the top fighters in his first fight back after his lay off. That was never going to be on the cards. Very few fighters in their primes will attempt to make a comeback against a peer after such a layoff. Now if Ward goes on from here to face another couple of fighters that are on Smith's level, then I would start to become critical of him, but I expect his next fight to either be against Golovkin or be a warm up fight for Golovkin against a top ten fighter, and by top ten I mean a live fighter and not one there thanks to some manipulation of the ratings.



Ward has a decent record for taking on challenges, and a quick look at his record over the four years prior to his lay off confirms this.


I think Golovkin is a real talent and one whose KO rate often overshadows just how good a technical fighter he actually is. He is a lovely mix of stopping power and technique. But I also think it is very fair to say that Ward has been in with better opponents than Golovkin has been in with to date, and that Ward has the better Ws on his record.

Now a lot of that may well be down to fighters avoiding Golovkin, but even so the list of opponents that Golovkin has faced to date is a tad underwhelming given how much of a talent he is and with that in mind there is more than just a grain of truth in what Ward said about Golovkin's opponents.

Now if Ward just bitches about Golovkin's record and then tries to avoid doing anything about it, then Ward will be open to ridicule in my eyes.

But I don't think this is the case. I think Ward genuinely believes in his own ability and that he fancies his chances of beating Golovkin.


And I think Golovkin will want a piece of Ward as Ward would be a serious scalp to get.

[Chris]

Yes it turned out to be a poor fight but it is unrealistic to have expected Ward to have gone in against one of the top fighters in his first fight back after his lay off. That was never going to be on the cards. Very few fighters in their primes will attempt to make a comeback against a peer after such a layoff. Now if Ward goes on from here to face another couple of fighters that are on Smith's level, then I would start to become critical of him, but I expect his next fight to either be against Golovkin or be a warm up fight for Golovkin against a top ten fighter, and by top ten I mean a live fighter and not one there thanks to some manipulation of the ratings.


Ward has a decent record for taking on challenges, and a quick look at his record over the four years prior to his lay off confirms this.

Well it didnt turn out to be a poor fight, it was a poor fight, that was obvious from the moment it was announced, I'm not a fan of fighters getting paid to fight punching bags, lay offs or not.

Its not about jumping straight in with one of the top fighters either, there is an inbetween from average British level fighter who's career best win is Tony Dodson 5 years ago to the best. Floyd took JMM when he came back allbeit knowingly bringing him up to a weight he knew he'd be out of his depth in but still, at least someone with serious skills.

His challenges all come in the Super 6 and he's barely left home in his whole career, fair play to him for signing up to it but we'll see just how keen he is now. Hopefully we get better than draining fighters down to a weight they hadnt made in 6 years like he did with Chad Dawson not that long ago. New promoter and all that so we'll see, but I'm not expecting fights that fans are begging for like Golovkin or Kovalev any time soon.

[Zapater]

I think it's good for Ward to have a 'tune up'. The only kind of fighter on a better level which would have been similar would be a guy like Abraham (whom he's already beaten). Obviously he's better than Smith, but it's still a rather drab fight. Ward has time on his side, there's plenty of big fights out there for him, so there's no reason to rush prematurely.

A lot of good fighters have had lower level opponents in between bigger fights, Ward doing so now is no shame, after that lay off. Seriously, look at some of the tripe even the best of this or their generations have been in with even at the peak of their powers. From Julio Cesar Chavez to De la Hoya... there's no shame at all.

On the Broner - Porter fight, I thought Porter did well and could have done even better. I dislike Broner, he is a talented fighter, but the guy is such a prick. He proved with that hook in the 12th he does have the potential to bang a little, but he's so feather fisted it's unreal. His style makes fights so dull. To his credit, the fact he admitted defeat and applauded Porter was impressive. I thought he was going to cry robbery as most boxers do these days if a decision doesn't go their way. He took his loss like a man and that sportsmenship far exceeded what I thought he was capable of. Broner's been exposed pretty badly over the last couple of years (I thought Malinaggi beat him too) - it'll be a long way back for him if he can do it. I think he's better at a lower weight and if he looked after himself better between fights he may be able to drop down to lightweight again where he'd probably be a lot better.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Well it didnt turn out to be a poor fight, it was a poor fight, that was obvious from the moment it was announced, I'm not a fan of fighters getting paid to fight punching bags, lay offs or not.

Its not about jumping straight in with one of the top fighters either, there is an inbetween from average British level fighter who's career best win is Tony Dodson 5 years ago to the best. Floyd took JMM when he came back allbeit knowingly bringing him up to a weight he knew he'd be out of his depth in but still, at least someone with serious skills.

His challenges all come in the Super 6 and he's barely left home in his whole career, fair play to him for signing up to it but we'll see just how keen he is now. Hopefully we get better than draining fighters down to a weight they hadnt made in 6 years like he did with Chad Dawson not that long ago. New promoter and all that so we'll see, but I'm not expecting fights that fans are begging for like Golovkin or Kovalev any time soon.

So what if his challenges came in the Super Six. He still fought and beat the best in his division at the time. A fighter cannot do more than beat the best amongst his peers and what competition it was part of does not matter a damn.

As for not fighting outside his own country, well again I see that as no big deal. Plenty of top fighters stick to fighting in one country during their early to peak years. Hardly something new and to be honest unless the country happens to be devoid of talent and proper facilities it is not as big a deal as it was years ago for the most part.


I cannot recall many complaining, myself included, when Golovkin took on a very much in decline Matthew Macklin a couple of years back. In fact I can recall the media trying to paint a picture of Macklin being a credible threat to Golovkin and using Maclkin's signs of promise from earlier in his career as "proof" of how much of a threat he would be.


I don't rate Smith as being anything other than yet another overhyped UK fighter when it comes to anything above European level, but as an opponent for a non big hitter who had been away from the ring since 2013 I think he is an acceptable opponent as long as the quality of opponent rises sharply after him.

Ward is not the most likeable of fighters when he opens his mouth, and that is probably a nice way to say it, but I think he sometimes gets judged more on his mouth than on his talents. He is probably the most talented guy at super-middleweight right now and if he gets back to his best within the next 12 months then he only has one or two ahead of him in terms of being the best pound for pound fighter.


One fight, especially if it turns out to be a once off, against a much lower quality fighter does not take away from Ward given his track record before his lay off and taking into account his lay off.

Likeable guy? Probably not for most folk.

Top class boxer who may again go on to be the clear best in the division? Hard to argue otherwise based on his ability and record.

[Chris]

So what if his challenges came in the Super Six. He still fought and beat the best in his division at the time. A fighter cannot do more than beat the best amongst his peers and what competition it was part of does not matter a damn.

As for not fighting outside his own country, well again I see that as no big deal. Plenty of top fighters stick to fighting in one country during their early to peak years. Hardly something new and to be honest unless the country happens to be devoid of talent and proper facilities it is not as big a deal as it was years ago for the most part.


I cannot recall many complaining, myself included, when Golovkin took on a very much in decline Matthew Macklin a couple of years back. In fact I can recall the media trying to paint a picture of Macklin being a credible threat to Golovkin and using Maclkin's signs of promise from earlier in his career as "proof" of how much of a threat he would be.


I don't rate Smith as being anything other than yet another overhyped UK fighter when it comes to anything above European level, but as an opponent for a non big hitter who had been away from the ring since 2013 I think he is an acceptable opponent as long as the quality of opponent rises sharply after him.

Ward is not the most likeable of fighters when he opens his mouth, and that is probably a nice way to say it, but I think he sometimes gets judged more on his mouth than on his talents. He is probably the most talented guy at super-middleweight right now and if he gets back to his best within the next 12 months then he only has one or two ahead of him in terms of being the best pound for pound fighter.


One fight, especially if it turns out to be a once off, against a much lower quality fighter does not take away from Ward given his track record before his lay off and taking into account his lay off.

Likeable guy? Probably not for most folk.

Top class boxer who may again go on to be the clear best in the division? Hard to argue otherwise based on his ability and record.

No one is taking away from his track record or anything, you are weirdly defensive here. And no one overhypes Paul Smith, the whole country know he's dreadful which is what made last night such a pathetic and embarrassing "event". Since the super six, he's drained the **** out of Chad Dawson, beat a **** Rodriguez and a woeful Paul Smith. Promotional issues, ring rust bla bla, the excuses have to stop now and he needs to start having fights that the supposed best after Mayweather should be involved in.

And not a fan of Macklin but his credibility is lightyears ahead of Smith, he's had a few decent wins and performances in his career at European/World level. Smith has zero other than in his deluded head v a way past it Abraham.

[Doc_Piptorious]

No one is taking away from his track record or anything, you are weirdly defensive here. And no one overhypes Paul Smith, the whole country know he's dreadful which is what made last night such a pathetic and embarrassing "event". Since the super six, he's drained the **** out of Chad Dawson, beat a **** Rodriguez and a woeful Paul Smith. Promotional issues, ring rust bla bla, the excuses have to stop now and he needs to start having fights that the supposed best after Mayweather should be involved in.

And not a fan of Macklin but his credibility is lightyears ahead of Smith, he's had a few decent wins and performances in his career at European/World level. Smith has zero other than in his deluded head v a way past it Abraham.

But what excuses are you on about?

It was his first fight back after a long lay off in boxing terms. Would say something if he was two or three fights into his comeback and only had taken on Paul Smith level fighters and had been making excuses. But that has not happened.

You are criticizing him for taking an easy fight on his first outing back. That is what I find weird. All he has done is something that is pretty normal in boxing and you are on about excuses as if he had been taking a lot of easy fights.

Would say something if Ward had a track record of taking lots of easy fights in the manner that active highly ranked guys like Khan, Wilder, Fury and the like do on a very regular basis, but Ward has taken one easy fight after a lay off and you are on about about excuses and the need to go straight in against the best.


Why not wait and see who he lines up. He is on record as saying he wants Govolkin late this year or in the first quarter of next year. Govolkin is also on record saying he wants to fight Ward. Seems to me that both guys are making noises about exactly the level of fight top guys should be trying to make.


The way I see it is if Govolkin and Ward meet each other in either their next outing or the outing after that, then they are the best trying to take on the best. But the reality is that the best sometimes have to fight guys way below their own level, but as long as that does not become the norm then the out foray into shallower waters is no big deal.


I would have a bigger issue with the guys who talk a lot about being the best but who never venture into the deeper waters.


As for Kovalev coming into the mix, well that I would find unlikely as he is a light heavyweight and a big one at that. Govolkin is never going to fight at Light heavy as he may be struggling to make middleweight but he is not going to jump up two divisions, and Ward may be a super middleweight at present but he has never really struggled with his weight and as such any move to light heavy would surely have to be a very calculated one as there is a bigger difference in the hitting power between Super middleweight and Light heavy than there is generally between middle and super middle. There have been guys who have proven to be exceptions, but usually middle to super middle is an easier transition than super middle to light heavy.

For my money Govolkin would lose to Kovalev if he tried to go up to meet him, and Ward-Kovalev would be a fascinating pairing but right now I would fancy the naturally bigger and stronger man if it were to happen in the near future. A good big 'un beats a good small 'un.

[Chris]

But what excuses are you on about?

Your embarrassing defence of an absolutely laughable mismatch. You still havent grasped that I'm not saying he has to go straight in with Golovkin or something either. But Paul Smith is ****ing garbage, as we knew, as was proven, it was utterly pointless. They should never, ever have shared a ring together, "lay off" or not. The constant defence of absolute **** like that is why fans get fed **** like that and I'm fed up with it.

Disclaimer : I am not saying Ward is the only fighter in history to take a gimme. I am not saying Ward had to jump straight in with Golovkin.

And you are already making excuses for Ward potentially not fighting Kovalev. Relentless.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Your embarrassing defence of an absolutely laughable mismatch. You still havent grasped that I'm not saying he has to go straight in with Golovkin or something either. But Paul Smith is ****ing garbage, as we knew, as was proven, it was utterly pointless. They should never, ever have shared a ring together, "lay off" or not. The constant defence of absolute **** like that is why fans get fed **** like that and I'm fed up with it.

Disclaimer : I am not saying Ward is the only fighter in history to take a gimme. I am not saying Ward had to jump straight in with Golovkin.

And you are already making excuses for Ward potentially not fighting Kovalev. Relentless.

Plenty of other fighters more worthy of your ire if fighting stiffs is your issue.

A once off after lay off is nothing and is certainly not a "constant defence of absolute ****", it is simply being able to tell the difference between something that is fine in isolation and something that becomes an absolute joke when it becomes the norm.


You also seem to be failing to grasp that I am not defending the fight itself, but rather the logic of easing a fighter back into competitive bouts with an easy return. Granted it would have been a better test if the opponent was of a higher calibre than of middling European/British level as that is a level that can be quite average to poor at the best of times despite what Sky would have us all believe, but sometimes a poor opponent is what is needed by way of a once off and as long as it remains a once off then it is not difficult to swallow. Actually Smith might even not be good enough to call middling as he would be a level below those that spar with the likes of Ward.

Of course if Ward faces off against another low quality opponent in his next bout, you can expect to read a more negative take on things from me, but I have been following this sport for far too long to get annoyed in any way over a match up that is a very obvious ice breaker on a number of levels.


As for making excuse for Ward not fighting Kovalev....you are getting a tad away from yourself there. I simply do not think it will happen and it is hardly ground breaking stuff for me to say that the jump from Super middle to light heavy is a big one for any fighter who is not having trouble making the super middle limit.

I would love to see Ward vs Kovalev. I think Kovalev wins though unless Ward can show beforehand that he can hang with naturally bigger men, or rather naturally bigger men who are also top class performers, but don't get how thinking the fight won't happen is me making excuses for Ward.

Ward vs Govolkin is a match up that could go either way, but Kovalev vs Ward or Govolkin would not be an even fight unless one of the two smaller men does something to show that they can take their skills and durability up a few notches.

[Chris]

Plenty of other fighters more worthy of your ire if fighting stiffs is your issue.

This was last night, obviously it's fresh in the memory and I'll criticise anyone else who does similar in the future like I've criticised others for it in the past.

You also seem to be failing to grasp that I am not defending the fight itself, but rather the logic of easing a fighter back into competitive bouts with an easy return.

You were defending the fight though. You said a Paul Smith level opponent was more than acceptable, so you might want to make your mind up. You are contradicting yourself. I dont have a problem with someone easing himself back after a long lay off, I have a problem with pitiful mismatches where an opponent is basically just a human heavy bag. One of the best fighters of the last 10 years v a guy who's best win is Tony ****ing Dodson is an absolute disgrace. No one is changing my mind on that, ring rust or not.

[Doc_Piptorious]

This was last night, obviously it's fresh in the memory and I'll criticise anyone else who does similar in the future like I've criticised others for it in the past.



You were defending the fight though. You said a Paul Smith level opponent was more than acceptable, so you might want to make your mind up. You are contradicting yourself. I dont have a problem with someone easing himself back after a long lay off, I have a problem with pitiful mismatches where an opponent is basically just a human heavy bag. One of the best fighters of the last 10 years v a guy who's best win is Tony ****ing Dodson is an absolute disgrace. No one is changing my mind on that, ring rust or not.

Well that's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Be more than a tad dull if we all agreed on everything.

I'll stick with my own understanding of why a fighter who has not fought since 2013 might need a walkover opponent, and not lump the fight in with the sort of guys who take easy fights on a regular basis.

And just like you and your opinion, I am just as set on my own take.

I can get why a boxing fan might get ticked off and take it as yet another case of a boxer taking on an opponent below his level but sometimes a fight has to be looked at in isolation especially when a layoff (which cannot be ignored no matter how much you want to call it an excuse) is being factored in.


I don't think that Smith deserved to get the fight or the payday that came with it, and that is based on him rather than his ability level, but I will defend the logic, because I agree with it, of a Smith level fighter (and at that level a fighter should be capable of defending himself and being a live if greatly outmatched opponent) being used against a guy who may or may not have had some confidence (be it over or under) issues due to his lay off.


I'm not trying to change your mind as you will have your own take, but rather I am disagreeing with you and trying to do you the courtesy of explaining why I don't agree with you.


Out of curiosity, and as you have not offered it in any of your posts on the topic, what fighter (or just use a fighter to establish a level if you prefer) would you have been satisfied with as an opponent for Ward who had not been in the ring since 2013? And why would you choose that fighter/level?

Not asking to be a dick but because I would like to see what you think the right level would be in such a bout compared to the level that would be taken on by an active fighter.

[Hollowman]

He's more than entitled to his opinion? What's beyond entitlement? Mandation of opinion? Sounds like you're being an opinion fascist, Jaco.

[Doc_Piptorious]

He's more than entitled to his opinion? What's beyond entitlement? Mandation of opinion? Sounds like you're being an opinion fascist, Jaco.

Are you really coming at me with mandation? You are above a Palin attack, in fact I think you are more than above such a tactic

[marcus50bucks]

Ringside show coming to an end. I always looked forward to watching the show

http://www.boxingscene.com/sky-sports-ringside-show-coming-an-end--92701

[spud_gun]

Ian John Lewis. A name to strike fear into any boxer who visits these shores.