Boxing

[labourRed]

Haye has really annoyed me since coming back. His whiff of desperation is nauseous.

It's clear he's just after one big pay day stooping as low to fight on Dave FFS.

[RichC]

I imagine his divorce wasn't cheap and he needs the cash!

[labourRed]

I imagine his divorce wasn't cheap and he needs the cash!

Is that what it is? In any case everyone should just mug him off like Fury did.

He's been as infuriating as Fury was - more talk than substance - although at least he was fighting actual, you know, proper boxers.

[RichC]

I think so.

Haye can be good to watch as he's capable of being dropped but he does have decent power as well so can cause problems and likely would to most in the division

Don't blame Haye too much coming back and fighting talking punchbags to an extent but he's got to move up now and fight someone capable.

[Vermilion]

Haye has really annoyed me since coming back. His whiff of desperation is nauseous.

It's clear he's just after one big pay day stooping as low to fight on Dave FFS.

True.

However, even though i quite dislike his attitude, in a fight between him and Bellew, where there has to be winner and hopefully by KO, i'll be cheering him on.

[Daniel 7]

Is it desperation, or just milking some money to make sure he's wealthy as an old man?

[labourRed]

Is it desperation, or just milking some money to make sure he's wealthy as an old man?

The former. I've nothing against someone trying to make a living but the way he's doing it is annoying the life out of me.

I mean he'll not give a ****, nor why should he but it's more than a tad undignified. Still in a division of chancers, what is one more.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I think so.

Haye can be good to watch as he's capable of being dropped but he does have decent power as well so can cause problems and likely would to most in the division

Don't blame Haye too much coming back and fighting talking punchbags to an extent but he's got to move up now and fight someone capable.

Based on his track record at HW his power is pretty average (by HW standards that is. He is still going to hit like a trained 16 stone fighter))


The two best names on his record since becoming a heavy are Valuev and Klitschko. His power did not exactly bother either of them.


Every other name on his HW record were either badly washed up or record padders.

Just had a glance at his record to remind myself of names and if we take out Valuev and Klitschko we are left with....


Tomasz Bonin
Monte Barrett
John Ruiz
Audley Harrison
Dereck Chisora
Mark de Mori
Arnold Gjergjaj


So those are the names upon which the foundations of Haye's reputation as a heavyweight are built.


Bear in mind that his first fight as a heavyweight came over seven years ago, and then his track record really shows him up to be nowt special at the weight.

At cruiser he was deserving of being spoken of as he was a fine cruiser ( beating Mormeck was a proper achievement for him), but he has done nothing at all of note at heavy to warrant his rep in the British media as some sort of top level banger that the other top guys fear.

Big men scare the **** out of him if they are not fodder, and would imagine him going against either of Joshua or Fury would be a case of him getting on his bike as soon as the first bell rang, after weeks and weeks of listening to him talk about his power and how he was going to knock them out.

[RichC]

Those are the names his reputation is built on as a heavyweight but that's the only people he's fought so it's impossible to give a reasoned opinion other than going with the basic facts he stopped these guys, he lost to Klitschko in a pretty one sided points decision any other opinion on his power at HW is simply that based on a opinion and not through what he's actually done.

You might be right about his power although rocking Valuev was pretty impressive and the division itself isn't exactly blessed with top fighters these days. Could he for instance drop a Charles Martin or Tyson Fury if he caught them ? I'd say yes most likely.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Those are the names his reputation is built on as a heavyweight but that's the only people he's fought so it's impossible to give a reasoned opinion other than going with the basic facts he stopped these guys, he lost to Klitschko in a pretty one sided points decision any other opinion on his power at HW is simply that based on a opinion and not through what he's actually done.

You might be right about his power although rocking Valuev was pretty impressive and the division itself isn't exactly blessed with top fighters these days. Could he for instance drop a Charles Martin or Tyson Fury if he caught them ? I'd say yes most likely.

So going by the basics facts all we know about his power at heavyweight is that he can stop badly washed up heavyweights or never weres, but has been found lacking when he stepped up in class.

Could he drop Tyson Fury? Maybe he could, but I would wager if he found himself in the ring with Fury that he would fight a similar safety first fight as he did against Klitschko where he seemed to have not getting knocked out at the top of his agenda over wanting to find a way to win.


As for Charles Martin...well I don't think he is much of a bar to be setting things to.


I am not saying that it is impossible that he has genuine power, but his record as a HW over the past seven years has mostly been against a pretty poor standard of opposition and the only two times he stepped up from that level his power did not come with him.


Lacking power or maybe lacking conviction when there is a genuine threat standing in front of him.


Looking at the current belt holders, I would not fancy Haye against either. In fact I would fancy Wilder or Joshua to stop Haye.

Klitschko I would fancy to beat him again, and would imagine it would be a carbon copy of their fight from a few years back.

Fury I think would get into his head and have him ****ting himself when the bell rang.


Now outside of those four the quality does plummet, and as such one would expect Haye to be able to beat a lot of that level or lower.

Maybe I am being a bit unfair on him as you can only beat or take on what gets put in front of you and to be fair he has stopped the majority of those that he has faced.

But my issue is with the reputation of being a huge puncher. I really don't see how he can be regarded as such when in seven years he has never stopped or even dropped another heavyweight of good quality let alone high quality.

Now a heavyweight does not have to be dropping everyone of quality he faces in order to be a good to great heavyweight, but if a heavyweight talks a lot about his hitting power then one could be excused for expecting said heavyweight to have stopped or dropped someone of quality during his HW career instead of having never done so.

I know it puts bums on seats and is a big part of the game, but it bugs me when he goes on about his stopping power or when the media try to build him up as some sort of one shot fight finisher at the highest level.

[Daniel 7]

Valuev has only lost twice in his career - I can't pretend to have seen his other defeat, but I remember Haye rocking him and him nearly going over. It was a bizarre sight, like a lumberjack going at a big tree but not quite getting through it.

That must say something about his power at least.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Valuev has only lost twice in his career - I can't pretend to have seen his other defeat, but I remember Haye rocking him and him nearly going over. It was a bizarre sight, like a lumberjack going at a big tree but not quite getting through it.

That must say something about his power at least.

It might. But staggering a guy during a fight is something that pretty much any heavyweight of decent quality or better should be capable of if he gets lucky and lands the right punch.

But my point is that we have seen so little evidence of this much vaunted power against good to quality fighters yet it is almost taking for granted that it is there.


Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt he can hit as I hold that opinion of pretty much every heavyweight. Trained fighters of 16 stone and over hit like big men should. So in that respect Haye hits hard.

But I am just saying that I think he is not an unusually big hitter for a heavyweight or if he is an unusually hard hitter then we have not seen it against anyone of note yet.


Could well be that he is a massive hitter with one shot stopping power, but have a feeling that the likes of Wilder or Joshua are harder hitters in terms of pound for pound hitting ability ( and I have doubts if either of those are truly one shot hitters, although at their size a clean hit will hit hard enough to render any debate somewhat moot)


Then again, as said in my earlier post, a heavyweight does not have to be the biggest hitter in the division for him to be a good or great heavyweight, and it is a division full of big men who can punch their weight.


RichC touched on it when he said that Haye stopped all the guys on the list I put up. And that is a list that can work both ways. I can see it as showing that Haye has power against the lesser guys and think that he does not transfer it against better fighters albeit using a very small sample due to him not having fought many .

RichC sees it as Haye stopping those that got put in front of him, that he can only stop those he gets to fight and those stoppages providing the facts that we have to work off of. And to be honest it is a very valid arguement.


At the end of the day it is just opinion, and gives us something to warble on about be it from one stance or another.

[marcus50bucks]

Dan Rafael @danrafaelespn · 9h9 hours ago
I'm told by a good source there are issues closing Joshua vs. Klitschko so Klitschko is now also looking at another possible December fight.

[Shaggy]

****s sake.

[Le Chef]

Dan Rafael @danrafaelespn · 9h9 hours ago
I'm told by a good source there are issues closing Joshua vs. Klitschko so Klitschko is now also looking at another possible December fight.

Something to with WBA - not accepting Josh as a challenger - Klits wants all three or at least 2