The Rugby Thread

[Irishnev]

Yeah phenomenal result for Ireland. With the strength of the priovinces, that reflects the way it should be, and as with England a poor performance from such a strong pool of players reflects on the coaches and or tactics. I see that JS is now injured and look s like he will be out for a couple of months.

I’ll stay out of yours and Zaps love in It’s the most complete performance from Ireland that I’ve seen in years - a twenty point winning margin wouldn’t have flattered us but NZ are off the back of a long hard season and ours is just starting so that matters. The worrying thing is that it was 12 Leinster lads and would’ve been 13 of Henshaw was fit....... they have some squad

JS with his customary injury - 6 weeks out but mad he is still going at that level at 36. I think forwards can do it, Matfield and Botha played into their late 30s but not normal for out halves. We have France and England away in the 6 nations where we could lose both.

Argentina on Sunday and we’ll rotate so that’ll be another toughie

[Zapater]

I really wanted us to beat you Saffers on Sat Zap mainly to shut you up for the arrogance and disdain you show against my country () but it wasnt to be. Partly self inflicted (Finn missed to easy pens that would have given us an 8pt lead at HT) with loads of handling errors and poor lineout. But a lot of that was down to the performance of South Africe.

Just another day at the office

I get what you mean and I've seen some of the Scottish players saying as much in the press, but I disagree. The first half was controlled by the Boks and didn't convert due to inaccuracies. Herschelle Jantjies for one had a shocker. When Reinach came on the tempo was automatically better. The Scotland try was a combination of poor moments and luck (Victor Matfield's words, not mine). Either way with the 'slow poison' front row replaced, it was only going one way. Also that pen against Etzebeth at the end of the first was a poor call to me, he was literally right on the ball. There wasn't much mention about trialling combinations or players, I seriously doubt Jesse Kriel will play too many more games on the wing for example.

But yes, given the window, you guys could've capitalised on it harder. Not too sure it would have made much of a difference given the complete control in the second 40 but who knows. This Springbok team isn't as good as chasing games as traditionally, but once they have a lead it's almost impossible for the opposition to claw it back as they grind them down.

They get a lot of stick in terms of the aesthetic, but I will tell you what to witness it in the flesh I would say South Africa are one of the purest Rugby teams around, that is to say they are a team for the purist. You 100% know what you are going to face it is about whether you can deal with it. South Africa turn up and play as advertised every game, we defended superbly ourselves in the first half, and scored a great try, and if it were not for the aforementioned missed pens, would have gone in 8 point up. South Africa are a forwards team, I reckon anyone who ever played as a forward would love them, they remind me of many incarnations of England team, but bigger, tougher and uglier.

I'm a bit jealous. Like I said, earlier in the thread I was at the last home game with fans when we smashed Australia at Ellis Park, ironically Jantjies debut. The guy has 19 tests under his belt now.

On players worth watching, I think Mapimpi needs a mention. So good at the breakdown for a wing. Kolbe gets all the fanfare (rightfully so, he's a maverick) but Mapimpi is quite underrated for me, really good scoring record too, if he plays for 3 more years you wouldn't rule him out getting close to 50 tries. Am also does quite a lot which you won't necessarily notice on TV. And Frans Steyn's boot is something to behold.

One thing to note was the atmosphere, amazing, and way more saffers than there were Aussies the week before. We sit in front of the commentary platform and could see Bryan Habanah and Faff watching the game.

Most of the Saffers are far more personable than you Zap and acknowledged how good a team we have become. I think we learn a lot from this going into the 6Ns.

Was shocked how loud it was, couldn't hear Kolisi in his postmatch comments. There was an Edinburgher (had to wiki that) in my Johannesburg social circles and I can say that the comments to him about Scotland's sporting prowess weren't very complimentary. They were probably being nice as they were guests in your country. Probably also happy to see how many chances SA produced players are getting on the world stage. Surprised how well Ollie Kebble was received, must be a really popular. I know he played at youth level with a bunch of the team at SA youth levels and at the Stormers.

I'd have less of a defence on other players, and all countries in the NH are use the rules to their full advantage. But being a Scot who grew up away from home, if my kid was excelling at sport, I would be wanting them to represent my country of birth.

Other players I can definitely see why you would take umbrage, but then, these are the rules. I think the sport is in a strong place globally. Though it does suffer from the same issues as football with too many matches for elite players.

I guess it's pointless to harp on about this but it's frustrating. I don't think people have any idea just how many international standard players are playing in Europe or Japan. And I'm not speaking only about those playing for other countries, but the likes of Serfontein and Lleyds. It's ridiculous the amount of quality missing, bettering other countries. It would be okay if it were two-way, New Zealand lose players but they gain them from the Pacific Islands. We've had a few good Zimbabwean players (the Beast and Gary Techmann most notably), but it's pretty much one way traffic unfortunately.

I refer to West Indian cricket a lot, but there are some similarities here. The difference is that at a franchise level, the management is pretty good and SA have rugby structures for over a century but it's a worry. I don't think it's sustainable. There's nothing to say that in 20-30 years the mainstream ideal won't be to go overseas and play for England or France etc. Enough South Africans have foreign citizenship as it is. Things can happen quickly, at the beginning of Brain Lara's career, there's no way he would've seen WI cricket where it was at the end of it.

[Zapater]

Erasmus banned from all rugby activity with immediate effect

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rassie-erasmus-banned-from-any-rugby-activity-with-immediate-effect-world-rugby-springboks/

Springboks director of rugby Rassie Erasmus has been banned from all rugby activity for two months with immediate effect following a disciplinary hearing after he was charged with misconduct during the Test series versus the British and Irish Lions. He has also been banned from any involvement on a matchday until September 30 next year, while SA Rugby must pay a fine of £20,000. Both Erasmus and SA Rugby must also apologise for their actions.

Erasmus is currently in London ahead of Saturday’s Autumn Nations Series match versus England having sat in the coaches box versus Wales and then run water to the Springboks players during last Saturday’s game against Scotland. Those are activities Erasmus now won’t be able to do again until late next year.

In a statement released on Wednesday evening, World Rugby reported: “An independent misconduct committee has found that behaviour displayed by SA Rugby director of rugby Rassie Erasmus towards match officials during this year’s Test series between South Africa and the British and Irish Lions constituted misconduct.

“The committee was chaired by Christopher Quinlan QC, together with Nigel Hampton QC and Judge Mike Mika (both New Zealand). Six charges were brought by World Rugby against Rassie Erasmus for various breaches of World Rugby regulation 18 and World Rugby’s code of conduct. The charges, in summary, were that Erasmus:

1. Threatened a match official that unless a requested meeting took place, he would publish footage containing clips criticising the match official’s performance and then making good on that threat; published or permitted to be published the Erasmus video containing numerous comments that were either abusive, insulting and/or offensive to match officials;
2. Attacked, disparaged and/or denigrated the game and the match officials;
3. Did not accept or observe the authority and decisions of match officials;
4. Published or caused to be published criticism of the manner in which a match official handled a match;
5. Engaged in conduct or activity that may impair public confidence in the integrity and good character of match official(s); and
6. Brought the game into disrepute when he published or caused to be published the Erasmus video.

“Having considered all the evidence, including oral evidence from the match officials, Rassie Erasmus, SA Rugby, World Rugby, and submissions from the parties the committee found all six charges against Erasmus proved. Two charges were brought by World Rugby against SA Rugby in accordance with World Rugby regulation 18 and the World Rugby code of conduct. In summary, the charges were that SA Rugby:

1. Did not ensure that Rassie Erasmus complied with the World Rugby code of conduct and/or permitted Erasmus to commit acts of misconduct; and/or did not publicly correct any comments or publications by or on behalf of Erasmus that amounted to misconduct; and
2. Permitted and/or did not prevent Siya Kolisi and Mzwandile Stick to make comments at a press conference on July 30 that were not disciplined or sporting and adversely affected the game of rugby; and/or did not publicly correct any such comments so as adversely affected the game of rugby.

“Having considered all the evidence, including oral evidence from the match officials, Rassie Erasmus, SA Rugby, World Rugby, and submissions from the parties, the committee found the first charge against SA Rugby proved. Having considered submissions on behalf of both parties in respect of sanction, the independent committee decided on the following:

RASSIE ERASMUS:

• Suspension with immediate effect from all rugby activities for two months;
• Suspension from all match-day activities (including coaching, contact with match officials, and media engagement) with immediate effect until September 30, 2022;
• A warning as to his future conduct and an apology to the relevant match officials.

SA RUGBY:

• A fine of £20,000;
• A warning as to future conduct and an apology to the relevant match officials.

The parties have seven days to appeal from receipt of the full written decision. Click here for the full 80-page written judgment. SA Rugby has since issued a brief statement. It read: “SA Rugby and Rassie Erasmus have noted the decision of World Rugby’s judicial committee. Both parties confirmed they will exercise their rights to appeal the verdicts. Neither party will make any further comment until the process is complete.”

Typical bull**** and timing before the England match. See Nick Berry crying about his reputation being tarnished for life. Maybe if he wasn't such a **** in the first place and responded to communications and didn't blow off the one team then he would have nothing to be embarrassed about.

I would like to see the book thrown at Gatland and Eddie Jones retrospectively too then. It was indeed Gatland that started this, so he should no doubt accept responsibility too? Jones press conference history is repetition of this, if it's so awful, the scope shouldn't be questioned, just the action.

And lovely move fining a broke union who couldn't find a sponsor 2 and a half years ago £20k (over R400k!). Smooth.

Anyway, team for the weekend:

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Cobus Reinach, 1 Ox Nche, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 5 Lood de Jager, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 7 Kwagga Smith, 8 Duane Vermeulen

Replacements: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Would have ****ed Kriel and Willie off for Fassi or Steyn and Nkosi, but Jacques has decided to keep consistency and persist with Kriel. Good to see de Jager and Reinach starting again, but no huge surprises in there. Think this WR ruling will be motivation to concentrate and win this last game.

[Zapater]

If we're consistent that should be at least a yellow, right? On previous decisions. 'No fault with by the tackler' because he's English against the Boks? I personally don't think it's a yellow or red, but when you look at the Australian decision among others this should be too. The falling into it should be irrelevant. Typical.

[Buzzo]

You guys have been incredibly impressive second half.

[Buzzo]

Although…

Chaotic last 5 and looks like England will steel it. That break and then shocking offload from Etzebeth was the game. Needed to recycle it.

[RichC]

I do like Marcus Smith, offers a bit of something different for us.

[Zapater]

On the try, they don't even check for a suspect pass, ref takes out one of our tacklers too. Jantjies and de Allende shocking, but still. Were never going to get favours in this game. England will take it, but not really fair, as per usual.

[Buzzo]

I do like Marcus Smith, offers a bit of something different for us.

He’s been outstanding for the last year. Farrells injury might have been a blessing in disguise.

[Buzzo]

On the try, they don't even check for a suspect pass, ref takes out one of our tacklers too. Jantjies and de Allende shocking, but still. Were never going to get favours in this game. England will take it, but not really fair, as per usual.

Nah, you were winning pens throughout the second half. About ten to two by my reckoning. England barely won anything (deservedly) until the last few mins. Pollard butchered a couple of kickable ones that would have given control and Etzebeth blew that line break. The only grumble you can have is that perhaps the yellow should have been issued earlier, and the yellow on Kolisi was harsh.

Great match though.

[RichC]

On the try, they don't even check for a suspect pass, ref takes out one of our tacklers too. Jantjies and de Allende shocking, but still. Were never going to get favours in this game. England will take it, but not really fair, as per usual.

Rassie?

I think in general the standard of reffing in rugby is pretty good (not Wayne Barnes) you guys play right on the edge and win some tight calls and also lose some.

Good game and tight tbh you are always and think always will be a tough game due to the style; not a fan of it but it’s bloody effective and you’re very good at playing that way

[Zapater]

I can see the headlines on the next game at Twickenham already. "South Africa haven't won here for a million years, England are so dominant there" when they've legitimately won 30% of recent matches. I wouldn't usually care, but this rankles after the WR verdict.

[Zapater]

Nah, you were winning pens throughout the second half. About ten to two by my reckoning. England barely won anything (deservedly) until the last few mins. Pollard butchered a couple of kickable ones that would have given control and Etzebeth blew that line break. The only grumble you can have is that perhaps the yellow should have been issued earlier, and the yellow on Kolisi was harsh.

Great match though.

Pollard isn't clinical enough for me, he hasn't had his kicking boots on all season, reason we lost all of the matches this season. Was horrendous against Australia.

Those are my main points of contention which would have changed the direction of the game though. Kolisi hug in slow motion, a yellow, come to expect it, but when do we get those? Based on recent decisions in the north, that's a high tackle and yellow/red everyday and you best believe that if a man in green did that it'd have been a penalised every time. 2 overlapping yelllows would have been critical. In the second half, England were legitimately being called as they were knocking on just about every high ball and were offside the majority of the time among other infringements, the ref could not not call them.

Anyway, it is what it is. Think this is a fixture I'll stop watching because it's wound me up so much over the years. Seasons over on a typical sour note, ruining a gruelling season which would've been great, now it's a just pass on paper. Hopefully the football goes better...

[Buzzo]

Pollard isn't clinical enough for me, he hasn't had his kicking boots on all season, reason we lost all of the matches this season. Was horrendous against Australia.

Those are my main points of contention which would have changed the direction of the game though. Kolisi hug in slow motion, a yellow, come to expect it, but when do we get those? Based on recent decisions in the north, that's a high tackle and yellow/red everyday and you best believe that if a man in green did that it'd have been a penalised every time. 2 overlapping yelllows would have been critical. In the second half, England were legitimately being called as they were knocking on just about every high ball and were offside the majority of the time among other infringements, the ref could not not call them.

Anyway, it is what it is. Think this is a fixture I'll stop watching because it's wound me up so much over the years. Seasons over on a typical sour note, ruining a gruelling season which would've been great, now it's a just pass on paper. Hopefully the football goes better...

Ah mate, at least you got to watch your country beat them in a WC Final!!!

I agree though, watching your country play England is always....... emotional. England have some cracking players right now, so dont need any favours, though the ref was punishing them the accumulation of yellows was getting ridiculous.

Was another stodgy performance from us today. Solid in the scrum and maul which won us the game, but we couldn't get any front foot ball which didn't make for much of a spectacle. Hogg now our record try scorer and he has been immense all autumn. 3 wins and a defeat to SA and it doesn't feel like an amazing series of games, which is testament to how far we have come, but I think we expect more.

Japan are amazing to watch. They run everything. They need proper games though and I think should be included into the Rugby Championship to enable them to develop.

We've got England next up in Feb. Interestingly poised. New England, running the ball a bit more with a sensational squad of players so we will have to be at our very, very best.

I haven't even responded to your Scotland v SA response yet Zap!

[Buzzo]

I can’t remember the last time Wales played a full match against 15 men.