The Rugby Thread

[Buzzo]

What an absolute shambles.

I’m always quick to acknowledge how good Rugby is on this kind of thing but they have absolutely tanked this.

Specially when you see the 10 week ban handed out to George Moala. Zero consistency. And Moala misses the whole WC.

What’s staggering is the ruling went against almost universal consensus.

[Irishnev]

Eddie being Eddie.

https://x.com/andyroweonline/status/1692059023787405591

Oh Buzzo - sort it out!!

[ame="https://twitter.com/andyroweonline/status/1692059023787405591"]https://twitter.com/andyroweonline/status/1692059023787405591[/ame]

[Cormack74]

On EJ, I read this the other day.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/08/11/steve-borthwick-undoing-england-culture-of-fear-eddie-jones/

Steve Borthwick had not enjoyed much of his experience as a player with England – he had captained the side for 21 of his 57 caps between 2001 to 2010 – but one moment remained with him. It was during Sir Clive Woodward’s World Cup winning tenure. Up to that point, the only time the players and their families mingled was late in the evenings after matches, when the mood was often determined purely by the result.

But after one autumn Test series, around 10 days before Christmas, Woodward told his players to meet in a central London location at 9am for a debrief of the campaign. If the players felt conspicuous away from the relative anonymity of their team hotel, Woodward reassured them that if anyone saw them, they would never think it was the England rugby team meeting at that time in the morning for a business meeting.

At its conclusion, Woodward told the players to head to NikeTown on Oxford Street to pick up some gifts. Unknown to the players, Woodward’s wife had also organised an event for the players’ partners. Later that day they all met up together for dinner before heading to a show. For the first time, they had all got to spend time together away from the rushed confines of most match schedules.

Steve Borthwick did not forget. And so, on Monday, just a few hours after the 33-man England World Cup squad had been named at Twickenham, halfway through a training session back at the Lensbury Club in Teddington, the players began to become distracted as a crowd of around 120 people began to assemble by the touchline of their pitch.

Manu Tuilagi was said to be surprised to hear other players talking about Freddie Steward’s dad before looking over and seeing him and then his own family. Theo Dan, the young Saracens hooker, was overjoyed to see his father, who had just arrived back from Romania. After the session, Dan Cole’s twin boys ran onto the pitch to wrestle and throw a ball around and Borthwick found himself in the role of goalkeeper, guarding makeshift nets as Joe Marler’s son took penalties.

Partners of long-standing members of England’s management team remarked that never had they been invited to an England training session and afterwards everyone celebrated the moment with a barbeque on the back lawns at the Lensbury. England’s new ‘friends and family programme’ had been officially launched.

It includes players being allowed to go home on a Tuesday night to give them a break away from the intensity of camp and then organise themselves to come before dinner the following day. Other family get-togethers are likely down the line, while moves are underway to allow children into the dressing rooms after matches so that England’s players can share the moment like their Ireland counterparts.

For those who may see this as a touchy-feely distraction from the unforgiving bottom line of winning Test matches, it is seen by Borthwick and his management team as an important foundation stone to bring the best performances out of their players of this generation.

The rationale is that player reviews revealed that England had become encumbered by a culture of fear by the time of Eddie Jones’ departure last December. They had been disillusioned by the number of competing psychologists and consultants each delivering different messages and had become scared to express themselves, either in social environments, or on the pitch.

Players spoke about how they were not even sure about being in the team room socialising, because they were worried about how they were perceived if they were laughing or joking or having fun, and spent little time together getting to know each other.

Consequently, when the going got tough, heads would drop and players would hide rather than demand the ball for fear of the criticism that would follow in post-match reviews if they made mistakes.

The review of England’s collapse against France at Twickenham revealed just how much work remained to be done to improve the mindset of the players and the culture of support around them.

John Connolly, the former Australia head coach who took over the Wallabies in 2006 after Jones had been dismissed, recognises the issues facing Borthwick.

“If you walked in a room, they [the players] would have their heads down and were scared to do anything,” said Connolly. “There was no leadership. There was no development. Steve will be facing the same problems. It will take him at least 12 months to get that back.”

Whether Borthwick can get his players to lift their heads again by the World Cup remains to be seen. What is clear is that he wants to make playing for England fun again, given the tough training commitments he is demanding from his players.

[Buzzo]

He’s back

We at least need a guest spot over the WC if not longer!

[Buzzo]

I’m still not convinced Borthwick is the man to give England the rugby they want.

Interesting on EJ, you start to believe he may be somewhere on the spectrum. His behaviour is just downright bizarre pretty much all the time.

[Buzzo]

Ireland need to beat England to go into RWC as number 1 ranked nation.

Quite looking forward to this.

[Cormack74]

He’s back

We at least need a guest spot over the WC if not longer!

Thanks mate

To be honest I can't promise I'll necessarily be back in on a regular basis.

With 3 Premiership clubs ceasing to exist, England in the doldrums (and prior to a WC), a significant player exodus to France etc etc I'm not absolutely enthralled by the game currently.

Maybe the WC will give me a fillip.

Or maybe not if we capitulate in our group - the Argies look strong

[Irishnev]

Ireland need to beat England to go into RWC as number 1 ranked nation.

Quite looking forward to this.

I just don’t want injuries and with regards to your Borthwick comment, I think England just want to win games. If I were a fan I’d just want a consistency in performance and selection off the back of solid set pieces, I think he can bring that.

We’ve picked a pretty strong side - I’d say 11 starters from our strongest side

[Buzzo]

Thanks mate

To be honest I can't promise I'll necessarily be back in on a regular basis.

With 3 Premiership clubs ceasing to exist, England in the doldrums (and prior to a WC), a significant player exodus to France etc etc I'm not absolutely enthralled by the game currently.

Maybe the WC will give me a fillip.

Or maybe not if we capitulate in our group - the Argies look strong

Yeah these are as dark days as I can remember for English Rugby, and so do think Argentina will fancy they can get a result…

That said, imagine what it’s been like being a Scotland supporter for 40 plus years! Reckon you’ve got to front it out A semi final place is well within Englands grasp.

[Buzzo]

I just don’t want injuries and with regards to your Borthwick comment, I think England just want to win games. If I were a fan I’d just want a consistency in performance and selection off the back of solid set pieces, I think he can bring that.

We’ve picked a pretty strong side - I’d say 11 starters from our strongest side

Agree on Borthwick being able to deliver that… but is that enough these days???

Yep, now squads ar me selected or almost selected injury is a massive issue. Both you and the English have gone strong. Also SA and Wales…

[Irishnev]

This game is horrible and we are sloppy as ****

[Irishnev]

I’m at the stage based on this game and the ****e vs Italy of thinking we won’t get out of the group! 12-3 up but it’s ****ing ****

Billy Vunipola looks a sure red here

[Irishnev]

A win but far from convincing, I’m hoping we are holding back!

[Buzzo]

A bit of rust, am sure you guys will come good.

England have seemingly endless problems. And. Another red card and shoulder hit from Billy Vunipola.

[Irishnev]

A bit of rust, am sure you guys will come good.

England have seemingly endless problems. And. Another red card and shoulder hit from Billy Vunipola.

It was as red as you get, like idiotic. We’ve a huge problem at 10, Ross Byrne is ****ing garbage. We are still so dependent on Sexton who hasn’t played in like 6 months

Ben Healy is a big loss for us