2021 Tennis

[Scratch]

That was Nadal’s 13th French Open title

Truly ridiculous level of domination.

Even if he overtakes Fed, to me that is why Rafa will never be the GOAT, maybe just the GOAT(OC).

[Buzzo]

No question he is the clay goat.

[wiw]

Even if he overtakes Fed, to me that is why Rafa will never be the GOAT, maybe just the GOAT(OC).

Him overtaking Fed for slams bothers me, i'm not sure why really, it's two fellas i've never met It's made more annoying by his ridiculous number of French Open titles. Just too much grunting and arse picking going on for him to be GOAT. Fed is much classier

[Shaggy]

Tbh I reckon in 2-3 years Federer will be 3rd in the list with his 20 slams. Crazy really.

[wiw]

Think you're right. Federer must hate Djokovic..he'd probably have 25+ slams if it wasn't for him

[Zapater]

As good as Fed is/was, we must acknowledge that his timing is unfortunate - he won most of his honours between eras. He was a young kid in the Sampras/Agassi era and didn't beat them. When Federer started dominating in his prime he was beating glorified journeymen. Hewitt, Roddick, Baghdattis, Safin etc. Obviously he did well, but as Nadal and Novak grew up a bit around 2010, he hasn't won very much. It's unfortunate but pretty much every final he's won (I think he beat Rafa and Djokovic both once or twice when they were 18/19) is against a pretty ordinary opponent. I went through the list, even in the later years it was the likes of Murray and Cilic rather than the other two.

Due to timing, I don't think he can feel hard done by if they surpass him. They've won more against each other (and him) and didn't have the luxury of beating journeymen (maybe more gatekeepers to steal a boxing team) for grandslam titles.

[Buzzo]

Based on that logic (and there is merit to it) we will eventually have to acknowledge Djokovic as the GOAT, not only will he probably end up with the most titles but he will also have the most across all surfaces against the most difficult opponents.

If Rogers figures are skewed by some easier finals early on then Rafa's figures are skewed by clay-court dominance. With 'only' seven slams coming away from RG.

The most hard done too is Murray for sure, as his Slam Final presence is impressive (9) but only once did he get to a slam final and not have one of the big three staring him down from the other side of the net.

[Zapater]

Based on that logic (and there is merit to it) we will eventually have to acknowledge Djokovic as the GOAT, not only will he probably end up with the most titles but he will also have the most across all surfaces against the most difficult opponents.

If Rogers figures are skewed by some easier finals early on then Rafa's figures are skewed by clay-court dominance. With 'only' seven slams coming away from RG.

The most hard done too is Murray for sure, as his Slam Final presence is impressive (9) but only once did he get to a slam final and not have one of the big three staring him down from the other side of the net.

I know people hate Djokovic for various reasons but I don't think it would be an unfair argument. I don't believe in necessary having the need to compare and rank players in terms of greatness and legacy etc. because obviously they're all excellent. More my thoughts on Federer perhaps (or not) being aggrieved with his records being shattered.

Murray (among others) is a prime example of the era debate, imagine we lived in an alternative universe and he were 5 years older. Would he have shared some of Federer's slams? Given his consistency surely he could have beaten the likes of Mark Philippoussis and avoided Federer on some draws? Would people still wanking over Roger each time he took a piss? Not sure. Obviously irrelevant but worth thinking about as that's where Federer's reputation is based.

[Buzzo]

I know people hate Djokovic for various reasons but I don't think it would be an unfair argument. I don't believe in necessary having the need to compare and rank players in terms of greatness and legacy etc. because obviously they're all excellent. More my thoughts on Federer perhaps (or not) being aggrieved with his records being shattered.

Murray (among others) is a prime example of the era debate, imagine we lived in an alternative universe and he were 5 years older. Would he have shared some of Federer's slams? Given his consistency surely he could have beaten the likes of Mark Philippoussis and avoided Federer on some draws? Would people still wanking over Roger each time he took a piss? Not sure. Obviously irrelevant but worth thinking about as that's where Federer's reputation is based.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

For me the beef with Djokovic is his 'mentality' . He should receive minus points for the finals where he has faked injury to regather momentum. Was always so annoying to (a) see it coming (b) watch it happen and (c) watch it work! Andy was such a purist he never would have tried the same.

I'd agree Novak will go down as the GOAT, he has the grace of Federer (surely the most beautiful game in the history of Tennis) and the grit and determination of Nadal. Back when it was nominally a big 4 at the peak of their powers, Novak was the only one who had the game to beat all of the other 3. Nobody will topple Federer (and to a lesser extent Nadal) in the housewifes choice awards, even my Mum struggled to support Andy against them.

I think Any Murrays Slams and titles (Olympics) have been so hard earned that they will prove him to be a great player who could at times live with the 3 greatest we have ever seen. He basically killed himself to get to number one in the World, and was in the form of his life when struck down by injury. He may well have had the chance to add another 2 or three to his total if it werent for injury, and even more if it werent for era.

Also he was always ****ed in the seed, he had 2 US Open Finals where he had beaten Nadal in epic semi finals only to face Roger who had sauntered through to the Final in a straight sets semi.

We have been totally spoiled for the last decade with the mens game providing these epic battles, and it has been great to have a vested interest I would say for most brits.

[Shaggy]

Just watched Andy Murray: Resurfacing on Prime. Anyone seen it? I absolutely loved it, and had tears in my eyes a few times. It dawned on me that no individual sportsman has ever reduced me to tears as much as Murray - albeit, obviously, nowhere near the amount of times he's done the same to Buzzo.

[Shaggy]

Watched it.

I think I wept at least 5 times

He is an inspiration. And honestly, they include some audio where he explains what tennis means to him which is among the most enlightening and heart breaking things I have ever listened to.

It is also not for the faint hearted. You get to see bits of Andy Murray you would never imagine you could see (graphic surgery).

Consider that he was World Number 1 when this injury took him down. Wimbledon Champion. As he went down he was even managing to beat highly ranked players on one leg. Injury has easily cost him at least one other Slam. He has been out for 2 entire years.

If he can get another shot at a Slam or 2 it will be the most amazing thing ever. EVER.

I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

Just found this and remembered it.

It's taken me nearly a year to watch it.

That answer to the question "why is tennis important to you" was incredible. He's a real sporting hero.

[rodo]

Just watched Andy Murray: Resurfacing on Prime. Anyone seen it? I absolutely loved it, and had tears in my eyes a few times. It dawned on me that no individual sportsman has ever reduced me to tears as much as Murray - albeit, obviously, nowhere near the amount of times he's done the same to Buzzo.

fantastic doc and murray at wimbledon is prob the only thing that has ever got me as involved as watching the reds

[Shaggy]

fantastic doc and murray at wimbledon is prob the only thing that has ever got me as involved as watching the reds

Same. Maybe the Ryder Cup at times.

So many great Murray memories - staying up late to watch him in the US Open, losing finals and winning his first GS, countless Aussie Open finals and all the memories at Wimbledon.

I remember that backhand down the line during a tie-break against Richard Gasquet when he ended up almost in the crowd...that must have been 2008 or 09 when he was about 21 ish. I recall I didn't like him before that match - I'd bought into all the crap about him without really finding out for myself. Love him.

[Shaggy]

Here's that shot

[ame="https://youtu.be/egmcDvt33QI?t=9683"]Andy Murray vs Richard Gasquet | Wimbledon 2008 Fourth Round Replayed - YouTube[/ame]

[rodo]

never really got it with henman too much of the toff about him