European Football

[Neil Young]

A lot of the Italian teams have evolved since the Calcio days of defending. Look at Juve, for example, on paper not some of the best defences but they are extremely strong and effective except for Sunday's howler by Manninger but Buffon will be back. Inter have developed a more street smart approach to defending likewise Milan however they look a lot more vulnerable to concede due to the lack of width.

You mean 'catenaccio' but anyway...

I don't think AC Milan in the halcyon days of Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini used catenaccio but they could both defend and play. They make Italian defenders today look like novices. I mean, Materazzi for instance

[dww]

You mean 'catenaccio' but anyway...

I don't think AC Milan in the halcyon days of Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini used catenaccio but they could both defend and play. They make Italian defenders today look like novices. I mean, Materazzi for instance

I read an interview with the coach who supposedly invented the original 'catenaccio' system (Herrera I think his name is). He wasn't keen on the name being applied more generically from what I remember and his system was based around two man markers and a sweeper behind them (he hated midfield sweepers) and two wing backs who he wanted to be more attacking than traditional fullbacks.

The Milan team of that era were phenomenal and made pretty much everyone of all eras look a bit shoddy.

[Joe King]

You mean 'catenaccio' but anyway...

I don't think AC Milan in the halcyon days of Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini used catenaccio but they could both defend and play. They make Italian defenders today look like novices. I mean, Materazzi for instance

Not necessarily 'catenaccio' but in Juve's case, Ranieri has taken a lot from what he learned in Spain and how they defend and implemented it. For Mourinho, this is a dream come true. He loves the whole tactical positioning of defences and has tried that however he doesn't have the defenders to carry that out; looking especially at Cordoba, Maicon, Burdisso, Chivu.

And I agree with the Milan defence. Organised, structured, balanced. It had everything.

[Neil Young]

Not necessarily 'catenaccio' but in Juve's case, Ranieri has taken a lot from what he learned in Spain and how they defend and implemented it. For Mourinho, this is a dream come true. He loves the whole tactical positioning of defences and has tried that however he doesn't have the defenders to carry that out; looking especially at Cordoba, Maicon, Burdisso, Chivu.

And I agree with the Milan defence. Organised, structured, balanced. It had everything.

The only flaw in your argument about Ranieri is that apart from Barcelona (this season) and Valencia, no-one in Spain seems to know how to defend. Even Cannavaro appears to have forgotten.

I seem to recall a story that when Ranieri went back to Valencia the defenders asked him what defensive scheme he wanted them to use for his first match and he told them to use Rafa's one. They told him they had six defensive schemes and Rafa would pick which to use according to the opposition.

OK, I haven't seen Juventus much recently so I defer to your expertise, enny boy.

[Joe King]

Bayern Munich demand £140m for France international Ribéry
• Bayern general manager values Ribéry higher than Kaka
• Milan had expressed an interest in French winger

[Guardian]

Bayern Munich general manager Uli Hoeness has slapped a £140m (€150m) price tag on midfielder Franck Ribéry. The France international was a reported target for Milan, who were thought to see him as a possible replacement for Kaka before his proposed move to Manchester City fell through last night.

Hoeness, though, values the former Marseille man higher than the Brazilian. "If Kaka is meant to be worth 120m [euros], then Franck Ribéry is worth 150m," Hoeness told Eurosport television. "We would only perhaps start to consider selling him at a sum like this."

Hoeness was speaking at the end of Bayern's 2-0 friendly win at second division side Kaiserslautern.

[Joe King]

The only flaw in your argument about Ranieri is that apart from Barcelona (this season) and Valencia, no-one in Spain seems to know how to defend. Even Cannavaro appears to have forgotten.

I seem to recall a story that when Ranieri went back to Valencia the defenders asked him what defensive scheme he wanted them to use for his first match and he told them to use Rafa's one. They told him they had six defensive schemes and Rafa would pick which to use according to the opposition.

OK, I haven't seen Juventus much recently so I defer to your expertise, enny boy.

Sevilla do, second best defence in Spain, if I remember correctly. The problem is their lack of goals. And style of play. And character.

[Neil Young]

Sevilla do, second best defence in Spain, if I remember correctly. The problem is their lack of goals. And style of play. And character.

OK, fair point, that's three.

[Joe King]

Ligue 1 - Fred free to talk to Stoke
Eurosport - Tue, 20 Jan 17:58:00 2009 [Eurosport]

Lyon have given Brazil striker and Stoke City target Fred the green light to secure a move away from Stade Gerland.

The Brazil international has outlined his determination to quit the French champions after losing his regular place in the first team and having become disillusioned with life at the Stade Gerland.

Les Gones have previously been reluctant to let him go but he was dropped from the squad for the weekend's 2-0 win at Grenoble, and club president Jean-Michel Aulas has now confirmed the 25-year-old can leave.

"When players don't behave to the level required in the squad, and to the level they should given the pay they wish to have, it is up to us to either punish them or say to them that they can go elsewhere. It is what has happened with Fred," Aulas said.

"He absolutely wants to go. I have replied to him... that effectively he can leave.

"Now, he has to find a club who would really like to have him at this stage of the season."

Roberto Horcades, the president of Fluminese, said last week that Fred would be joining the Brazilian club in the summer after claiming they had "sealed an agreement" with the player.

But Aulas's comments suggest Fred has yet to find a club.

"Things haven't been sorted out," Aulas added on Canal Plus. "We are waiting to see what his position is."

Fred previously said that Lyon had disrespected him and that he would be keen to talk to Stoke.

[Neil Young]

Ligue 1 - Fred free to talk to Stoke
Eurosport - Tue, 20 Jan 17:58:00 2009 [Eurosport]

Lyon have given Brazil striker and Stoke City target Fred the green light to secure a move away from Stade Gerland.

The Brazil international has outlined his determination to quit the French champions after losing his regular place in the first team and having become disillusioned with life at the Stade Gerland.

Les Gones have previously been reluctant to let him go but he was dropped from the squad for the weekend's 2-0 win at Grenoble, and club president Jean-Michel Aulas has now confirmed the 25-year-old can leave.

"When players don't behave to the level required in the squad, and to the level they should given the pay they wish to have, it is up to us to either punish them or say to them that they can go elsewhere. It is what has happened with Fred," Aulas said.

"He absolutely wants to go. I have replied to him... that effectively he can leave.

"Now, he has to find a club who would really like to have him at this stage of the season."

Roberto Horcades, the president of Fluminese, said last week that Fred would be joining the Brazilian club in the summer after claiming they had "sealed an agreement" with the player.

But Aulas's comments suggest Fred has yet to find a club.

"Things haven't been sorted out," Aulas added on Canal Plus. "We are waiting to see what his position is."

Fred previously said that Lyon had disrespected him and that he would be keen to talk to Stoke.

Surely he's going to fail the medical.

[Joe King]

Ramon Calderon's demise highlights flaws in Madrid system
Gabrielle Marcotti, European Football Correspondent [Times}

Considering how popular democracy is as a system of government, it is amazing how many quotations exist that poke fun at it. George Bernard Shaw said: “Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.” Art Spander, the American sports writer, opined: “The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter the right to do something stupid.” Even Jawaharlal Nehru, a politician who risked his life to pursue it, admitted: “Democracy is good. I say this because all other systems are worse.”

Many football fans are attracted to the structure of clubs such as Barcelona and Real Madrid, where regular elections allow club members (of which there are tens of thousands) to choose their president. Without question, it has its appeal. Just about any member can be elected president and thus inherit the job of looking after the club’s glorious history, plotting the future and, crucially, determining the present. Equally, the fans — those who care for the club, not just through words, but deeds as well — have the ultimate say.

But to judge from events in Madrid last week, you may be tempted to think it was the worst possible way to run a club. On Friday, Ramón Calderón, the Real president, was forced to resign after allegations that he had a hand in rigging a crucial vote to approve the club’s accounts. According to reports in Marca, the Spanish newspaper, aides packed the assembly charged with approving the accounts. Many of the voters sympathetic to Calderón were ineligible to vote and indeed some were supporters of other clubs.

Calderón denied the allegations and sacked two officials charged with running the vote. But by Friday, with many not believing the story that the two officials had acted without his knowledge, he was forced to resign.

Despite winning two Liga titles, the Calderón era is likely to be remembered as a low point in Real’s history and, possibly, evidence that the system needs fixing. Calderón’s tenure encapsulates many of the criticisms of democracy. People make promises to get elected and then ignore them once in office. Calderón said that he would bring Kaká, Cesc Fàbregas and Arjen Robben to the Bernabéu. Only the last of those three materialised.

Voting can be manipulated. Calderón won the election in 2006 by 264 votes after some 10,000 postal votes were not counted. His rivals sued to have the postal ballots recognised. After an acrimonious legal battle, a court ruled that nothing could be done, since the voting system was flawed to begin with and thus the legitimacy of the postal ballots could not be guaranteed.

Democracies are subject to, if not outright mob rule, at least the fickleness of polls. Calderón sacked Fabio Capello, the coach, after he delivered the Liga title in 2006-07, largely on the back of mounting criticism via the press. Bernd Schuster, Capello’s successor, also won the title but was dispatched in similar circumstances.

Democracies can make elected officials feel all-powerful. The Real president enjoys sweeping powers and Calderón took this to a new high. Rarely did he rule by consensus, preferring to make decisions and explain himself later. This undermined his coaches and led him to make irresponsible comments, calling David Beckham “half a movie star”, lambasting Real’s fans and revealing the details of Iker Casillas’s wages.

Democracy offers no guarantee that those elected will be competent or that they will not be prone to ridiculous gaffes. From the trivial (when an Italian actor pretending to be Nicolas Cage turned up at the Bernabéu last March, Calderón rolled out the red carpet and allowed the impostor, who clearly did not speak English, into the dressing-room) to the serious (spending £40 million on Lassana Diarra and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar without realising that, because both had played in the Uefa Cup, only one could be registered for the Champions League).

Of course, this does not mean that if Real were owned by an omnipotent businessman (or an Arab sheikh) they would be any better off. Indeed, the Real model remains the best alternative to traditional clubs. But Real’s version of democracy is fraught with peril and requires continuous vigilance, as well as checks and balances.

Better the devil you know? AC Milan fans clearly think otherwise as they protest against the possible sale of Kaká

One of the by-products of the proposed transfer of Kaká to Manchester City was the selection of banners displayed at the San Siro by AC Milan supporters in an effort to persuade the Brazil forward to stay or, alternatively, Silvio Berlusconi, the club’s owner, to change his mind.

Some were directed at Sheikh Mansour, the owner of City. One, referring to the club official who sanctioned the deal, read: “€100 million for Galliani: except we’ll pay if you take him away . . .” Some were humorous: “Eto’o ¤80 million . . . with MasterCard, Ronaldo €120 million . . . with MasterCard, Messi €180 million . . . with MasterCard. Kaká . . . PRICELESS.”

My favourite referenced the fact that Milan are nicknamed The Devil: “We thought the devil was supposed to buy the souls of others . . . we didn’t think he would sell his own soul.”

[Joe King]

Primera Liga: Barcelona extend their lead at the top of the table by 15 points with a 4-1 win against Numancia. Messi, Eto'o, Henry and Messi again wrapped up a one sided game.

Other notable results: Valencia lost to bottom of the table Mallorca 3-1. Atletico were held to a 1-1 draw away at Malaga.

Serie A: David Beckham scored in a 4-1 away win against Siniša Mihajlović's Bologna. Other scorers included Seedorf and Kaka twice. Roma defeated lofty and gutsy Napoli 3-0. Goals from Juan, Mexes and Vucinic. Juve in the late game beat the Violets thanks to a goal from Marchisio and are currently leading the table on goal difference. Updates on Inter's game coming up as they are due to play Sampdoria now.

[Joe King]

Inter: Cesar, Maicon, Chivu, Samuel, Santon, Cambiasso, Zanetti, Muntari, Stankovic, Mancini, Adriano.

Sampdoria: Castellazzi, Stankevicius, Palombo, Raggi, Gastadello, Pieri, Del Vecchio, Sammarco, Dessena, Francheschini, Pazzini.

Real Madrid vs Deportivo

Real Madrid: Casillas, Ramos, Pepe, Cannavaro, Heinze, Sneijder, Diarra, Gago, Robben, Higuain, Raul.

Deportivo: Munua, Garcia, Lopo, Garcia, Luis, Lafita, Tomas, Rodriguez, Verdu, Valeron, Bodipo.

[Mike]

No Ibrahimovic for Inter?

[Joe King]

No Ibrahimovic for Inter?

Suspended.

[Joe King]

Inter lead 1-0 thanks to Adriano's easy finish just before the stroke of half time. Mourinho has been sent off to the stands.