Stupid, stupid Premier League

[The_weatherman]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/premier-league-play-off-champions-league

Premier League plans play-off for last Champions League place
• Team as low as seventh could be given chance to qualify
• Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool object

The Premier League is considering introducing a play-off system to determine the fourth club to qualify for the following season's European Champions League.

Currently the club which finishes fourth goes through but the new proposal would mean a play-off between the clubs finishing fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh. The intention is to inject more competition into a league in which qualification has for years remained in the hands of the same four clubs.

Premier League sources have confirmed that the play-off proposal was presented at the most recent meeting of all clubs, on 4 February, and the league's chief executive, Richard Scudamore, was authorised to return with further details in April.

It is understood that the idea was enthusiastically supported by all clubs – except the so-called big four of Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool. Scudamore, and the league's secretary, Mike Foster, will examine the practicalities of how a play-off system could work: whether it should take the form of a home-and-away knockout system, similar to that in the Football League, or incorporate seeding. They will also look into when matches could be fitted into a crowded fixture calendar before making recommendations.

The idea was presented as part of the Premier League's strategic review of its format and operations and springs from two particular motivations. The first is to crack the problem of England's top league becoming less open and competitive, with the richest clubs, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, having strengthened their hold on the top four places over several years. One league source said it was an odd twist that the idea has been raised now, in a season when Liverpool's claim to the fourth place is being seriously challenged.

The response among clubs outside the top four is understood to have been positive, with some believing that a play-off system would create more competitive matches and give more clubs a prize to challenge for. Most clubs now feel they have no chance of attaining fourth place but almost the whole Premier League could be brought into a competition to finish seventh and make it to the play-offs. The medium-sized clubs, which increasingly aspire to break the cartel, are said to have been enthusiastic, seeing play-offs as a great opportunity.

The big four, who have been qualifying on merit at the end of each season and reaping the footballing and financial rewards of Champions League participation are understood to have been less keen. Self-interest is clearly a factor, with those clubs concerned about protecting their own advantages. However, there is also a feeling that the league should be more sophisticated about addressing its major challenges, particularly the financial ones, rather than incorpor-ating an awkward play-off system for a prize as ostensibly moderate as fourth place.

The other motivation for the play-offs is a waning of the proposal for an international round of matches, dubbed "Game 39", which was widely criticised for lacking coherence and being territorially expansionist. The play-offs would mean extra matches, which would be sold to pay-television and so generate more money for all clubs.

The consistent qualification of the same four clubs, widely seen as stifling competition, is not replicated across Europe. The Premier League largely blames the Uefa Champions League money, distributed to participating clubs, for entrenching the big four's financial power. Uefa, however, points out that Champions League income represents a small part, 8–13%, of Manchester United's, Chelsea's, Arsenal's and Liverpool's total turnover. Most of the big clubs' money is made in this country; Premier League television income is relatively evenly distributed but United, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular make much more than their nearest rivals from commercial activities and match-day revenues in the Premier League.

The Dutch league tried a play-off system for the second Champions League qualification place but abandoned it after the 2007-08 season, when FC Twente Enschede beat Ajax 2-1. The issues in Holland were the risk of crowd trouble at such high-stakes matches and a perception that the play-offs were one-sided.

In the Premier League there is some confidence that neither of those would present major problems. As a means of encouraging competition, opportunities and increasing income, the play-off proposal already seems to have enough support to suggest it could gain the necessary 14-6 majority to be implemented.

[Scratch]

Is this really that bad an idea though?

[Shaggy]

How utterly ridiculous.

[The_weatherman]

Idiotic IMO, and what if Birmingham manage to finish 7th and get into the CL and get knocked out straigth away? Or if Liverpool finish 7th and beat the 4th placed team in the playoffs? And that's not even mentioning more fixtures.

I think it's most important to look at the league table after the season, if you finish 4th you finish 4th. Nine times out of ten the team in 4th place will win the play off as well anyway.

Why are the Premier League suits intent on ruining the league? 39th game! Playoff for 4th! Arseholes.

[The_weatherman]

Is this really that bad an idea though?

Yes.

Idiotic IMO, and what if Birmingham manage to finish 7th and get into the CL and get knocked out straigth away? Or if Liverpool finish 7th and beat the 4th placed team in the playoffs? And that's not even mentioning more fixtures.

I think it's most important to look at the league table after the season, if you finish 4th you finish 4th. Nine times out of ten the team in 4th place will win the play off as well anyway.

Why are the Premier League suits intent on ruining the league? 39th game! Playoff for 4th! Arseholes.

[Craig_H]

Is this really that bad an idea though?

Yes, it's an absolutely absurdity.

Team finishing 7th can get into the CL? What nonsense.

Why not do a play-off to decide the PL champions too?

[Kenneth]

Is this really that bad an idea though?

Oh yes.

[PTP]

Idiotic IMO, and what if Birmingham manage to finish 7th and get into the CL and get knocked out straigth away? Or if Liverpool finish 7th and beat the 4th placed team in the playoffs? And that's not even mentioning more fixtures.

I think it's most important to look at the league table after the season, if you finish 4th you finish 4th. Nine times out of ten the team in 4th place will win the play off as well anyway.

Why are the Premier League suits intent on ruining the league? 39th game! Playoff for 4th! Arseholes.

It’s ****ing ridiculous. As you say, why try and change things that work, and have worked for years and years.

I hate all the ****ing suits, that seem intent on ruining the sport. Football is football – the problems is, you have a load of ****ing suits be it at the fa, premier league, uefa or fifa that sit around, do **** all and have to justify their existence. So every now and then they change something so it looks they are doing their jobs. – if it’s not trying to change the game itself ie ****ing round with the offside rule etc, it’s a change to make them more ****ing money. The 39th game, which iirc they wanted to be played around the globe was ****ing shocking but this.......

For a start the fixture pile up, at the end of a season would be horrendous. – ie, take Chelsea – they could find themselves with, firstly in January, half a dozen players playing in the African nations – when they return, they could be in the semi finals of the carling cup, going through the rounds of the fa cup, progressing in the champions league etc – the games pile up, they slip into 4th in the league, and find themselves with fa cup final, champions league semi and potential final and as well as the remaining league games, another 2 play off matches, and a potential play off final in the space of like a month at the end of the season – which once completed, a week later the whole squad **** off to the world cup for June/July and then return again for pre-season and probably champions league qualifying rounds in august - they’d be ****ed

They are only thinking about the money! Some tit has said, we can raise £xxxxxxxxx’s – for starters there would be 4 play-off matches that the tv and sponsors would be all over, and finally a big cup final at Wembley.

Craig h – don’t even mention the potential of having a play-off for the league – that will be next.

Some money man, who has never played a game in his life has prob spent too much time watching American sports.
It would be long before the split the game into quarters so they can get more adverts in.

[Exiled_red]

Yes, it's an absolutely absurdity.

Team finishing 7th can get into the CL? What nonsense.

Why not do a play-off to decide the PL champions too?

What a joke this is, I can't understand why certain sports go all the way through a league season, then decide to have a playoff to decide who wins. The idea of combining a league and playoff has always been stupid IMO, the league ranks teams on merit.

[PTP]

What a joke this is, I can't understand why certain sports go all the way through a league season, then decide to have a playoff to decide who wins. The idea of combining a league and playoff has always been stupid IMO, the league ranks teams on merit.

i've always thought it bizarre too - a team could **** every one all season long, be the best team around, finish way out ahead at the top of the league after long season - maybe even winning every single game - then in a play off final too decide the champions, lose 1-0 to the 4th place team who scraped into the playoffs on the last day

I also think, even though it could effect us - that having a competition called THE CHAMPIONS league, and having teams in there that aren't the champions from their country is shocking.

I totally agree that there should be a European competition that has the best teams around competiting, that is surely what every football fan wants to see, the best teams around going head to head - but calling it the champions league is wrong.

[einar]

So what do we think?

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/02/15/SOCCER_Play-off.html

The Premier League are believed to be considering a proposal to introduce a play-off for the fourth Champions League spot.

Currently the teams finishing in the top four positions are handed entry to Europe's elite competition, either in the main draw or at the qualifying stage.

Now it has been proposed that only the first three be decided on league position and the fourth place be determined by a play-off.

That could mean the teams finishing in the positions fourth to seventh playing a mini-knockout competition.

Such a move would be seen as a measure to inject more competition into the league.

The same four clubs - Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea - have filled the top four positions in five of the past six seasons. Only Everton, in 2005, have broken their stranglehold.

The proposal is thought to have been raised at a recent meeting of all 20 clubs and will be considered again when they next meet in April.

The Premier League have not commented directly on the matter.

A spokesman said: "We look at all sorts of ideas and rarely make comment until we have decided something definitely."

If the proposal was to be voted on at any stage in the future, a 14-6 majority could be enough to see it implemented.

The idea may not be favoured by the established 'big four', who would obviously have the most to lose, but the idea is thought to have been enthusiastically greeted by some clubs.

Interestingly, the proposal has been raised at a time when Liverpool's place in the top four is coming under serious competition anyway from the likes of Manchester City, Aston Villa and Tottenham.

Nevertheless such an idea would keep interest in the season, even for clubs in mid-table, going for longer.

There are other factors which would have to be considered, however, such as how the play-offs might lengthen the season and how they could be fitted into the calendar. Determining Europa League qualification is an added complication.

A satisfactory format would also have to be devised. Some might argue a Football League-style home and away play-off might not be appropriate to settle what is basically fourth place.

One spin-off effect could be that the matches fill the void left by the failure of the 'Game 39' proposal, and they would certainly generate television interest.

But again, it would have to be decided if that was appropriate for a lesser prize.

[SK]

unneccesary pressure imo. if you finish 7th over the course of 38 games, you don't deserve to play in the CL.

[Scratch]

I think it ain't bad...it's called the Champions League, yet teams who finish fourth in their league can still enter it...it's not a Champions League at all, it's a glorified European Competition.

Keeping the fourth place open gives the league far more competition and keeps it interesting to the end, and is a way of breaking up the "Big 4" monopoly. the play-off system is tried and tested, and works well.

And as for anyone who instantly wants to dismiss the hopes of a club like Birmingham...is the team that finishes 7th really that much worse than the team that finishes 4th? If so, the play-off won't really make a difference cos the 4th place team will win anyway...oh, not so confident now? And what about Everton, finished 4th in the league and then didn't even make it out of the Qualifying rounds.

Personally, i think that the PL is that much closer now, that a team finishing 7th (a team capable of beating Chelsea or United) has just as much chance of winning a knockout competition as the team finishing 4th.

So long as the place goes to a team who has qualified for Europe, then i am all for it. 4th is not champions. Neither is 7th. Big ****ing deal.

[S-RED]

UEFA would take the 4th spot away from the league if this happened. They would claim it would be devaluing the tournament.

& lets face it Platini would jump at any chance of taking places away from the english.......

[BillobShaisley]

Far too contrived. Play off for relegation or follow the yanks and have a playoffs end of season programme for the winner. Not that i'd support either idea, but at least it's logical. A play off to see who comes 4th is just daft.