Stupid, stupid Premier League

[Scratch]

But let's argue that the gap is not much and the teams are close, well then I don't see any point in a play-off really, let them just fight it out over the fair playground that is the league.

I see no reason to change it, all i'm saying is that if they did, i wouldn't bat an eyelid, so long as it was staggered in favour of the higher placed team in the league (see my earlier post) so that league position still remains critical.

[The_weatherman]

I see no reason to change it, all i'm saying is that if they did, i wouldn't bat an eyelid, so long as it was staggered in favour of the higher placed team in the league (see my earlier post) so that league position still remains critical.

So I can take my gloves off then? I'll just go for my warmdowns

[Kenneth]

04/05 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 34 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 6
05/06 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 24 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 9
06/07 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 21 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
07/08 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 11 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 18
08/09 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 18 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 19

It ain't that big in reality....only in the past two seasons has 4th been closer to 1st than it has to 7th, with last year only one point in it. And with more teams joining that scrap now...Villa, Spurs, City etc, I expect this season the gap between 4th and 7th will be minimal, whilst the gap to the champions will be 20+ points...

...so yes, i'd reckon 7th would have just as much of a fighting chance as 4th...ie not much.

Out of 5 years comparison, 2 years, and the most recent years, show that the difference between 4th and 7th is bigger than the difference between 1st and 4th. And you're using that to suggest that 4th and 7th are pretty much equivilent

[Scratch]

Out of 5 years comparison, 2 years, and the most recent years, show that the difference between 4th and 7th is bigger than the difference between 1st and 4th. And you're using that to suggest that 4th and 7th are pretty much equivilent

Aye, cos them two years could be a discrepency...when we look at the final table this year, i think it will be back to normal again, with 4th to 7th being close...

Altho my figures also show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, but last year it showed signs of getting back to normal (ie 4t hbeing closer to 7th), being only 1 point in favour of 4th to 1st...so yes, i will use that as a sample. Or i could go back more years....it would still show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, and then last year it showed signs of reverting to normal?

[Kenneth]

Aye, cos them two years could be a discrepency...when we look at the final table this year, i think it will be back to normal again, with 4th to 7th being close...

Altho my figures also show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, but last year it showed signs of getting back to normal (ie 4t hbeing closer to 7th), being only 1 point in favour of 4th to 1st...so yes, i will use that as a sample. Or i could go back more years....it would still show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, and then last year it showed signs of reverting to normal?

You can't draw trends from 5 years of stats and certainly not from one year to the next.

The 7th place team will often be further away from 4th than 4th is from winning the league is probably fair.

[Exiled_red]

The only reason we have 4 places in the CL is because of the success of English teams to date. If we put a weaker team forward (and nobody is going to tell me the team in 5th/6th7th is no worse than the team in 4th) theres more chance we'd lose the place.

Looking at the teams in these positions in previous years they have all struggled in Europe, when playing in the UEFA cup it's rare to see an English club progress from the start to the latter stages.

Aside from the 'top 4' over recent years the English clubs have very poor European records.

[Exiled_red]

I don't really care about how big it is in points, although on average it ahas been 14.5 points these four years and increasing, but the teams in fourth are usually also battling on three or four fronts as well. The teams who have finished fourth in recent years have been markedly better IMO. This year is different maybe due to the difficulties surrounding Liverpool but next year it will be the top four or five standing out, IMO.

But let's argue that the gap is not much and the teams are close, well then I don't see any point in a play-off really, let them just fight it out over the fair playground that is the league. Because another point is that over the course of a season luck is supposed to even out, but in the play offs a single wrong decision can shape the future of teams, which would be unfair, the league table is the best barometer and was probably invented to keep the score for some purpose.

[Exiled_red]

Aye, cos them two years could be a discrepency...when we look at the final table this year, i think it will be back to normal again, with 4th to 7th being close...

Altho my figures also show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, but last year it showed signs of getting back to normal (ie 4t hbeing closer to 7th), being only 1 point in favour of 4th to 1st...so yes, i will use that as a sample. Or i could go back more years....it would still show that 2 years ago the trend was bucked, and then last year it showed signs of reverting to normal?

If that's the case it already seems as though the race for 4th to 7th is quite competitive, why does it need to be made more so?

[Scratch]

You can't draw trends from 5 years of stats and certainly not from one year to the next.

The 7th place team will often be further away from 4th than 4th is from winning the league is probably fair.

Really??

OK, since the start of the premier league then...

17 seasons, only 5 times was 4th closer to 1st than it was to 7th.

Average points from 1st to 4th: 18.05
Average points from 4th to 7th: 10.59

92/93 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 13 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
93/94 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 21 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 7
94/95 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 15 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
95/96 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 19 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 2
96/97 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 7 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 11
97/98 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 15 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 6
98/99 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 12 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 13
99/00 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 24 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 9
00/01 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 11 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 11
01/02 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 16 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 18
02/03 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 16 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 8
03/04 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 30 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 7
04/05 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 34 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 6
05/06 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 24 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 9
06/07 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 21 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
07/08 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 11 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 18
08/09 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 18 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 19

[Scratch]

If that's the case it already seems as though the race for 4th to 7th is quite competitive, why does it need to be made more so?

I've already said i don't see the need to change it, my point was i wouldn't be up in arms if they did, so long as it was stacked in 4th places favour (RL Super League style).

[Kenneth]

Really??

OK, since the start of the premier league then...

17 seasons, only 5 times was 4th closer to 1st than it was to 7th.

Average points from 1st to 4th: 18.05
Average points from 4th to 7th: 10.59

92/93 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 13 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
93/94 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 21 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 7
94/95 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 15 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
95/96 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 19 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 2
96/97 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 7 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 11
97/98 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 15 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 6
98/99 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 12 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 13
99/00 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 24 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 9
00/01 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 11 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 11
01/02 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 16 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 18
02/03 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 16 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 8
03/04 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 30 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 7
04/05 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 34 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 6
05/06 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 24 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 9
06/07 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 21 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 12
07/08 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 11 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 18
08/09 - Gap from 1st to 4th: 18 ---- Gap from 4th to 7th: 19

So almost a third of the time, the team in 7th is further away from 4th than the team in 4th is from being champions. And also that, on average, the team in 7th is about 11 points behind the team 4th. Again, doesn't support the suggestion that a team finishing 7th has just as much chance of winning a knockout competition as the team finishing 4th (Not the the CL is really a knockout competition until the latter stages).

Not trying to be picky, but 7th in the league is significantly less impressive than finishing 4th and there can be a real difference in class between two such teams.

[Scratch]

So almost a third of the time, the team in 7th is further away from 4th than the team in 4th is from being champions. And also that, on average, the team in 7th is about 11 points behind the team 4th. Again, doesn't support the suggestion that a team finishing 7th has just as much chance of winning a knockout competition as the team finishing 4th (Not the the CL is really a knockout competition until the latter stages).

Not trying to be picky, but 7th in the league is significantly less impressive than finishing 4th and there can be a real difference in class between two such teams.

Almost a third yes...but the points difference from 4th to 7th is a lot less, nearly half at just over 10. That says to me that in terms of ability, there really ain't much between 4th and 7th so why the hell can't 7th have just as much chance in Europe as 4th?

I'm not arsed about the merits of it, i just don't see why, if it were implementated, it would cause a great deal of debate. Finishing 4th and qualifying for a CHAMPIONS League is just as laughable as finishing 7th, in my mind.

[Bender]

First of it shouldn't be called the champions league .......as that only means champions of the respective leagues.......so 2nd,3rd and 4th place teams should not be entered

[G]

England has 4 places because its merited them due to the performance of its teams in Europe since the champions leagues inception.

Allowing second rate teams to participate with little hope of them reaching the latter stages could ultimately result in England losing its entitlement to 4 places in the first place.

What would the prem league think about that.

[Assassin]

The FA are trying to make more money out of games. This is just the same bull**** that comes out of hole in Scudamores face. His last gem was a 39th game in some godforsaken place in the world.....what for MONEY.

England has 4 teams on merit, under the rules of Eufa it goes to the first 4 teams in the PL.

If this gets pushed through the FA face the prospect of LOSING money as I am convinced the Big 4 (Liverpool and the 3 other pretenders) will accelerate plans to leave the PL and start a Euro Super League with other elite clubs

One more thing, this will extend the season by a couple of weeks for play off teams. The season is long enough as it is, with the normal leagues, World cup, world cup qualifiers, Euro champs, Euro champs qualifyers, Confed cup, fecking Olympics etc, etc.....