The Barcelona v Real Madrid thread

[Daniel 7]

I'd disagree with you on that re maradona mate, he was far better than anyone else around at the time. In fact, i'd had Maradona as the best ever (i never really saw Pele, to be fair) and i'm not unsure as to whether Messi needs to win a World Cup to surpass him, or not.

The Argentina side of 1986 had less talent in it than the one of today, and yet Maradona won the world cup for them almost single handedly. Messi hasnt been able to do that yet, but then i suppose the 1986 Argentina arguably didnt have opposition like the Spanish side of the last few years.

Its Diego for me at the moment, he's my favourite ever player, but Messi is as close to him as you'll get.

I agree with you, I said pretty much the same thing earlier in the thread, what I was meaning was that Arn said you can't compare generations due to advances in preperation and conditioning, which is a fair point. Thinking about 86 and to a lesser extent 90, Diego probably is that little bit ahead in terms of his competition in his era.

[Gibbo]

Mourinho to the Scum and Pep to Citeh

[Chris]

They are the best team ever and yes you're playing a dangerous game by matching them head on, but Real *had* to at least show more than they did tonight. No-one expects them to go gung-ho but that was ludicrously defensive. No attempt to get men forward, a centre-half in midfield, 29% possession at home, against a team who've struggled away from home, lost at Arsenal, were without Iniesta and had a makeshift back 4.

They had to be more adventurous but Mourinho didn't have the bollocks.

Yep, they've shown they're vulnerable away at times in Europe over the last 2 years. Arsenal can beat them at home but Real cant be expected to have a go? I dont buy it. He got it wrong tonight and now they're eliminated.

[Daniel 7]

Mourinho to the Scum and Pep to Citeh

I wonder if Pep is only ever going to be a Barca manager.

[Craig_H]

Yep, they've shown they're vulnerable away at times in Europe over the last 2 years. Arsenal can beat them at home but Real cant be expected to have a go? I dont buy it. He got it wrong tonight and now they're eliminated.

You can try it for sure, but you need a major slice of luck or they'll muller you.

Arsenal beat them at home via a massively lucky evening where barca had a cast iron peno not given and perfectly good goal ruled out, which would have given them a 0-2 lead and effectively sealed the tie.

[Shaggy]

You can criticise him for it, but i dont think any other manager with any nous would've have done a great deal more offensively. Madrid tried that at the Nou Camp in November and they got guffed 5-0. I think it's easy for us to say 'go for it more' but when you're in his position, you're always going to err on the side of caution.

There's erring on the side of caution and then there's being 100% negative and barely even engaging in a game of football.

And I honestly don't recall Real taking an attacking approach to the Nou Camp. They had 33% possession and two shots. Granted they didn't play with a centre half in midfield and actually went wild and picked a centre-forward, but it was hardly gung ho.

[Gibbo]

I tried to defend Mourinho earlier in the thread but the tactics he but put out tonight were terrible. He deserved everything he got. If he stays at Madrid next year it will be interesting to see what happens to Ronaldo, Where else could he go? I think he's too good for Inter or AC.

[Shaggy]

Yep, they've shown they're vulnerable away at times in Europe over the last 2 years. Arsenal can beat them at home but Real cant be expected to have a go? I dont buy it. He got it wrong tonight and now they're eliminated.

I tried to defend Mourinho earlier in the thread but the tactics he but put out tonight were terrible. He deserved everything he got. If he stays at Madrid next year it will be interesting to see what happens to Ronaldo, Where else could he go? I think he's too good for Inter or AC.

[Vermilion]

Its typical him, he's absolutely pathetic. Though he didnt have a problem with refs when his Porto team cheated to beat Celtic, Man Utd had a perfectly good goal ruled out on his Porto CL run and Barca had a perfectly good goal ruled out last season that would have seen his team eliminated.

Hopefully we never have him here, he's not the only man in the world who can win trophies and he's disgusting as a person. That Cup win might buy him some time but if he repeats those tactics next season he's out of work. Ronaldo is already getting ****ed off with it judging by tonight.

When he left O'Toilet for Madrid, i think he was sure that before long he'd be lauded as the best player in the league, just as he was in the Premiership.

Must be a bit of a shock to his system being contstantly upstaged.

[Buzzo]

I'd have Pele and Diego ahead of Messi. Possibly Zidane also.

However, as was pointed out earlier Messi is only 23... By the end of his career, if he continues the way he is now and perhaps bags a World Cup, well, he could eclipse all of them

Oh, and Mourinho is a classless, arrogant, moaning ****. He can't have it both ways with referees and clearly only moans when things don't go his way and he ****s up with his 'mind games'. Sadly for Mourinho he hangs around at clubs for such a short period of time he is liable to be more remembered as an arrogant ****, than as the successful manager he is.

If he ever manages ManUtd he will be unbearable...

[Lecter]

No one know how Pele for example would be able to cope if he trained as hard as the players do now. How many goals he would be able to score if he was up against very good players in almost every game like a player like Messi is now.

How many more injuries would he get because of all the extra training he must do? The players now train so hard and play in such a high tempo that they get injured more because of that. They are much closer to what the body can cope than before.

You could probably say that he was up against average players in at least five or six games out of ten. It was more easy to be ahead of your time back ten. More easy to dominate.

Pele was kicked from pillar to post in every game he played so I think its safe to say his fitness and physique was frequently examined on a more rigorous scale than anything todays players experience

Yes he scored lots of meaningless goals but he also scored lots of goals in World Cup finals he appeared in 4 World Cup finals (was a winner 3 times)

[Shaggy]

When he left O'Toilet for Madrid, i think he was sure that before long he'd be lauded as the best player in the league, just as he was in the Premiership.

Must be a bit of a shock to his system.

I love it when Messi upstages that cunt

[Craig_H]

There's erring on the side of caution and then there's being 100% negative and barely even engaging in a game of football.

And I honestly don't recall Real taking an attacking approach to the Nou Camp. They had 33% possession and two shots. Granted they didn't play with a centre half in midfield and actually went wild and picked a centre-forward, but it was hardly gung ho.

I just think there's that much fear with Barcelona, and Real Madrid, for all their cautiousness under Mourinho, arent a great defensive unit collectively, so yeah he shat himself and it's a bit of a letdown for the players he has, but it's not surprising to me and i think most managers would do the same.

Madrid's problem, yes they have talented players and their squad has cost a bomb, but for all that, they are not a collective unit, they are a bunch of individuals and their key men, unlike Barca, are ego maniacs who are notoriously difficult to transform into selfless parts of an overall machine-like team. Barca, the opposite of that.

[Shaggy]

I'll be amazed if Mourinho stays. Copa Del Rey means ****. Marca and all the rest in Madrid will go mad about the tactics tomorrow (apparently they already are) and I reckon he'll either walk before he's pushed or get the bullet.

[Arn]

The reason that we won against them a couple of times in the CL? Tactics and a better manager.

If you look at the squads back then they should have walked all over us. The only thing that could save us was that Rafa would win the battle against Mourinho.

Mourinho struggles big time when he is up against a tactically excellent manager.

What would a tactically excellent manager done tonight against a Barcelona team with big problems in defence? He would have attacked them IMO. He would have played at least one of Benzema or Higuain from the start. Kaka instead of Lass. He would have played players that would be able to press all over the pitch.

Mourinho got it totally wrong. Barcelona was there for the taking tonight. For the taking I mean that you could with the right tactic have a chance to win against them.