Manchester City

[EwarWoo]

They'll have something about how to deal with this situation in their charter and will follow it.

I can't find anything in the handbook from a quick skim, it's too hard to follow and found nothing from keywords fraud, relegation, cheat, and a few other. It has some great historical tables in it though.

[EwarWoo]

It should be somewhere in the W's, page 275 on. W51 seemed promising but not specific enough.

[dom9]

Wonder if Pep would be happy to get the sack now, take his big payday (did he sign a new contract, or was that just a rumour?) and then be free to take up a managerial role for the National team? He seems unmotivated and down...losing Rhodri should not have the impact it is having to the team, the malaise has to come from Pep himself.

I wouldn't be surprised if he just quits, if the current situation continues.

At times he looks like he is on the verge of a breakdown. It can't be good for his health.

[Cerbie]

Unfortunately this is most likely, the league will try and come up with a solution that is easier for them to manage any potential fall out.

I think what the panel decide and how the PL deal with any consequences are two separate things.

There is precedent in UEFA to award the titles to the runner-up and not to award it to anyone.

There would probably have to be a PL vote on it and that would be a way to limit the potential fall out & manage any liabilities the final decision creates.

Again, this is not the first time it has happened, so they can look at other countries experiences and be guided accordingly.

I have read that some clubs who were impacted could try to sue City directly for compensation, however I doubt many would try because of their vast wealth and limitless legal resources.

[Cerbie]

They'll have something about how to deal with this situation in their charter and will follow it.

I can't find anything in the handbook from a quick skim, it's too hard to follow and found nothing from keywords fraud, relegation, cheat, and a few other. It has some great historical tables in it though.

Have you got a link to that please?

[Doc_Piptorious]

I wouldn't be surprised if he just quits, if the current situation continues.

At times he looks like he is on the verge of a breakdown. It can't be good for his health.

He is like a person that has come up against real adversity in his chosen profession for the first time and has found that when he went to the well that it was dry.

Not a good place for him to be mentally one has to imagine.

[EwarWoo]

Have you got a link to that please?

https://preml.ge/PLHandbook202425

Linked from here, it's proper not a virus:

https://www.premierleague.com/about/governance

[RedReet]

A horse race is a single event with 12 competitors. Pl winner is a result of 380 individual events(matches)

It’s not really comparable

I'm not saying it is comparable or trying to set a precedent, it was just a simple way to illustrate the point that in other competitions, if the winner is disqualified, prize goes to 2nd, regardless of who was impacted most.

I'm also not arguing for the title to go to 2nd place, I don't really care, I'm saying that I don't see how a team in 3rd or 4th place could argue they might have won the league if City didn't cheat.

The only real argument I see, which I didn't pick up on initially is the European qualification, which is a fair argument for some clubs. But I just don't see how the 3 worst clubs each season can argue that City cheating made them worse or that teams who finished below 2nd can argue (validly) that they might have won the league.

[rudedog]

I'm not saying it is comparable or trying to set a precedent, it was just a simple way to illustrate the point that in other competitions, if the winner is disqualified, prize goes to 2nd, regardless of who was impacted most.

I'm also not arguing for the title to go to 2nd place, I don't really care, I'm saying that I don't see how a team in 3rd or 4th place could argue they might have won the league if City didn't cheat.

The only real argument I see, which I didn't pick up on initially is the European qualification, which is a fair argument for some clubs. But I just don't see how the 3 worst clubs each season can argue that City cheating made them worse or that teams who finished below 2nd can argue (validly) that they might have won the league.

I suppose it depends on the situation, all teams have to play City twice so it ‘should’ be a level playing field in that sense.

However, some of the seasons where City won the league early might have resulted in them putting a weakened team out (if the had a cup final to focus on etc) or just not putting in the same level of effort. (Look how sloppy we got after we had won the league)


Same argument could be made for teams that got relegated

[EwarWoo]

If they had an unlucky run of fixures and in a short window faced them a few times between league and cups that kind of form can take the pep out of a push.

There absolutely could be arguments. Not saying I agree with them, haven't thought about it enough to have an opinion either way, but there are definately arguments there.

[Mr Pink]

I don’t want any retrospective titles being awarded, but would like to see them stripped of them. What would frustrate me about 2nd place getting the titles- the years that we finished 2nd it was indisputable who would have won it if city weren’t around. We were racking up more points than any of the other teams have done in their history, let alone that season.

But look at 2018 where United finished 2nd. They finished 6 points clear of us, and 20 or so points behind city. But if city weren’t there, and we were in a title race, I reckon we would have won it, or at least might have. Look at some of our results towards the end of the season. We drew with Everton in between the CL quarter final games. We drew with west brom 3 days before the CL semi first leg. We drew with stoke in between the 2 CL semis. We lost to Chelsea 4 days after the CL semi second leg. Our priorities were clearly on the CL, if we were in a title race, I feel like we’d have prioritized that.

[Mr Pink]

To me that feels right, but also kind of meaningless at the same time.

There’d be no undoing or making up for what City have done.

Robbed of a CL/PL double and a domestic treble. Sickening.

I also think we might have completed the quad. Madrid had the league wrapped up with weeks to spare, and were able to be rested and whatnot in the final. Would have been nice if we could have had the same…

[EwarWoo]

But look at 2018 where United finished 2nd. They finished 6 points clear of us, and 20 or so points behind city. But if city weren’t there, and we were in a title race, I reckon we would have won it, or at least might have. Look at some of our results towards the end of the season. We drew with Everton in between the CL quarter final games. We drew with west brom 3 days before the CL semi first leg. We drew with stoke in between the 2 CL semis. We lost to Chelsea 4 days after the CL semi second leg. Our priorities were clearly on the CL, if we were in a title race, I feel like we’d have prioritized that.

To argue that though you have to argue you put out a weakenned team. Valid or not the penalties for using it outweigh the benefits.

[Mr Pink]

To argue that though you have to argue you put out a weakenned team. Valid or not the penalties for using it outweigh the benefits.

Naaa, just that the players had the distraction of the CL. Not saying we would have definitely won it, but saying it’s a diff race if city aren’t there. Maybe United would have bottled it, maybe spurs would have won

[RedReet]

I suppose it depends on the situation, all teams have to play City twice so it ‘should’ be a level playing field in that sense.

However, some of the seasons where City won the league early might have resulted in them putting a weakened team out (if the had a cup final to focus on etc) or just not putting in the same level of effort. (Look how sloppy we got after we had won the league)


Same argument could be made for teams that got relegated

That's like the Sam Allardyce argument against Rafa. Any number of teams gain unfair advantage over the course of a season, whether it's playing weakened teams that are resting for bigger games, key players getting injured or suspended, or even the difference between a struggling manager going and a new one coming in and improving results.

I've no doubt there are some genuine hard luck stories over the years and Mr Pink makes a good point about the season we finished 3rd, but ultimately teams should be responsible for their own performances and if you didn't do enough to win, I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

What they should do, is avarage the number of points over each season and give all of City's trophies to the team with the most points.