Charlie Adam

[Kenneth]

How on earth ISNT it???

None of those players i listed are 'great' at both defending and attacking - yet MUFC have always been in the top four and always been a title challenger.

So when Arn claims that a top four/title challenging side needs to have CMs who are great at both defending and attacking, it's clearly nonsense and proven to be nonsense, by Man Utd.

I agree Craig. In a 4-4-2, with a player like Lucas who can play a very deep lying role and cover a lot of ground, the CM partner isn't usually any good defensively. I doubt Lampard's tackling stats are impressive over his Chelsea career either. I don't care if Adam puts in tackles if he works to close down space and links up our play. At the moment he's doing that pretty well most of the time, although probably not enough. He's been very unlucky not to have more goals. I didn't fancy him as a target but I'm not sure why people are giving him stick. He's a £7m CM who's probably playing at, or slightly below his level. Don't want to see him play every game (doubt he will with Gerrard fit) but he's more creative than the average CM squaddie. Seeing as e struggles with 90 mins, maybe he scan be a good option from the bench.

[Lecter]

No it isn't.

Adam's defending skills or lack of it, is nothing new but the problem for me at least yesterday was his inability to create chances and provide good quality passes, which is why we went after him.

Personally it is not good when Lucas and Adam decided to swap their positions at one point and it was Lucas trying to push forward, create chances and find Suarez, Carroll etc.

That is not his role but it is Adam's and yesterday he did so little especially as we had an extra man on the pitch.

As a side note, I'd take 3 out of 4 of those you mentioned over Adam atm.

My major concern when signing Adam was the balance in central midfield

Despite Lucas' stas he is not a dedicated out and out destroyer

Adam alongside a destroyer would flourish (just as Gerrard will) because both pplayers clearly frequently abdicate their defensive responsibilities

Lucas needs someone who chips in more defensively (Spearing) also but hes probably our most productive defensive player

Thats not to say that any of them are bad players but for me the balance aint quite right for any of the combinations

[Lecter]

Clearly as you said it is very difficult, almost impossibly to find a player that excels in both areas but in terms of Adam he really needs to up passing aspect of his game cause that is his strength.

I think he is aware that Stevie's coming back his position will be in danger and he is trying "Hollywood" type of passing to demonstrate his value to the team.

Sometime simple 1-2 passing and keeping the ball on the ground is all he needs to do rather then forcing and trying to thread the needle.

It isnt just Adam though for me

Our decision making in many areas of the pitch is poor

Take yesterday as an example

First half Enrique and Adam combined down the left. Adam made a run taking a player outwide leaving Enrique in acres of space to put a ball in instead he took the easy option and played Adam in who was crowded out and lost possession. Carroll at the time was going mad

The best chances are created by balls played into the box EARLY

Our build up is often too slow and convoluted

[Kenneth]

Lucas needs someone who chips in more defensively (Spearing) also but hes probably our most productive defensive player

Ok, then we need to replace Lucas in the first team in that case when we play 4-4-2. We'll never find the right balane.

I think Lucas can play that role personally.

[Lecter]

Ok, then we need to replace Lucas in the first team in that case when we play 4-4-2.

I think Lucas can play that role personally.

Depends who you have alongside him (as I mentioned above)

Ditto for Gerrard & Adam

[Fredo]

The best chances are created by balls played into the box EARLY

Our build up is often too slow and convoluted

This more often when Carroll plays. There is less passing in and around the box as a result and our play is clogged down.

[Lecter]

This more often when Carroll plays. There is less passing in and around the box as a result and our play is clogged down.

Its hardly Carrolls fault if Enrique and Adam are bumbling around instead of getting the ball in early

Carroll slows our play at times but on Saturday there was others just as guilty of it

[BigChief]

Its hardly Carrolls fault if Enrique and Adam are bumbling around instead of getting the ball in early

Carroll slows our play at times but on Saturday there was others just as guilty of it

An absolute world class player that Suarez is, against Everton he just didn't know what to do with the ball. Ran into players or just passed it to one of them a number of times. Thankfully, he's had his 'bad' game and we still won(and he still scored).

Carroll should not be held responsible for Suarez, Adam and Downing's anonymity during parts of the game.

[Fredo]

Its hardly Carrolls fault if Enrique and Adam are bumbling around instead of getting the ball in early

Carroll slows our play at times but on Saturday there was others just as guilty of it

No he's not responsible for it but I don't think he's clever and mobile enough to create space or link up the play as we should. Crossing the ball early to him should not be the only option, he should have more to his game than this.

[dom9]

It isnt just Adam though for me

Our decision making in many areas of the pitch is poor

Take yesterday as an example

First half Enrique and Adam combined down the left. Adam made a run taking a player outwide leaving Enrique in acres of space to put a ball in instead he took the easy option and played Adam in who was crowded out and lost possession. Carroll at the time was going mad

The best chances are created by balls played into the box EARLY

Our build up is often too slow and convoluted

When this happens, people complain about one dimensional hoof ball.

[Exiled_red]

When this happens, people complain about one dimensional hoof ball.

There's a difference between long hoofed balls up from the back and early balls in from wide areas.

Balls that are straight up the pitch are quite easy to defend against, whereas balls with more of an angle in are more difficult to defend. Also an early ball from wide area will likely be played from the final third to a striker in the box, whereas a hoof is played from our own half to a striker 30 yards from goal. IMO there is a massive difference, as for it being one dimensional it shouldn't be the only tactic we employ.

[dom9]

There's a difference between long hoofed balls up from the back and early balls in from wide areas.

Balls that are straight up the pitch are quite easy to defend against, whereas balls with more of an angle in are more difficult to defend. Also an early ball from wide area will likely be played from the final third to a striker in the box, whereas a hoof is played from our own half to a striker 30 yards from goal. IMO there is a massive difference, as for it being one dimensional it shouldn't be the only tactic we employ.

Agreed, but people will still complain.

[Mostar]

There's a difference between long hoofed balls up from the back and early balls in from wide areas.

Balls that are straight up the pitch are quite easy to defend against, whereas balls with more of an angle in are more difficult to defend. Also an early ball from wide area will likely be played from the final third to a striker in the box, whereas a hoof is played from our own half to a striker 30 yards from goal. IMO there is a massive difference, as for it being one dimensional it shouldn't be the only tactic we employ.

[BG1973]

It isnt just Adam though for me

Our decision making in many areas of the pitch is poor


The best chances are created by balls played into the box EARLY

hmmn, to a ceratin extent however on the other hand our players often get over excited and rush passes when a bit more composure would pick out the more intelligent pass.

[Norbs]

Ok, then we need to replace Lucas in the first team in that case when we play 4-4-2. We'll never find the right balane.

I think Lucas can play that role personally.

Away from home, Lucas in a 4-1-4-1 set up would be the best deployment of his skills and ensure that all he does is break up opponents play and sit in front of the defence protecting them and allowing them to keep their shape. It'd work well away in tough games. Sit Adam and Gerrard in front of Lucas with any two from Suarez, Maxi, Downing, Bellamy and Kuyt out wide and any one from Suarez, Kuyt and Carroll up front and you'd contain any team relatively easily. Lucas is our most specialised player these days, his role is defensive midfielder or being left out. Seeing as he's the only player we have to excel at performing this role means that he simply has to start every game.

At home we try to employ a too attack minded set up which just encourages our opponents to sit back and absorb it in a congested final third. I'm not advocating an approach that we play more deeply but sometimes we're trying so hard to create that we suffocate our own play. We are at our most dangerous when countering at pace after having snuffled out an attack from our opponents, IMO, and when we have less time on our hands to think about what to do too much.