Racism in Football

[Fosterbloke]

Imagine that happening at a Liverpool v United game [emoji23][emoji23] would be some “extra toppings” going on the burgers...

I couldn't even stomach doing that to another human being, what if they shared it with a child?

Tailgating was great fun when I went to a baseball game (NY Mets), loads of banter, of which I understood **** all because I don't follow the sport but nothing hostile or sinister.

[Exiled_red]

I think if a racially abused team mate wanted to leave the pitch I’d probably encourage all my team mates to join him to make a loud statement that the controlling body couldnt Hide from.

[Mr Pink]

I think if a racially abused team mate wanted to leave the pitch I’d probably encourage all my team mates to join him to make a loud statement that the controlling body couldnt Hide from.

And if your abused team mate didn’t want to leave the pitch? Would you still encourage everyone to leave? Trent answered the question about it well yesterday- said that if it was them, they would decide how to deal with it as a team, rather than individually.

I’m not trying to be critical of the victim’s actions btw, no one should have to put up with that type of abuse and it’s a fair enough reaction to leave the pitch, but I can see why his team mates tried stopping him- if our place in the CL was on the line, I would expect the Liverpool players to do the same.

[Exiled_red]

And if your abused team mate didn’t want to leave the pitch? Would you still encourage everyone to leave? Trent answered the question about it well yesterday- said that if it was them, they would decide how to deal with it as a team, rather than individually.

I’m not trying to be critical of the victim’s actions btw, no one should have to put up with that type of abuse and it’s a fair enough reaction to leave the pitch, but I can see why his team mates tried stopping him- if our place in the CL was on the line, I would expect the Liverpool players to do the same.

If the abused player doesn't want to leave the pitch then the team would stay on the pitch and highlight the issue with the officials and operate the appropriate procedures during/after the match. If the player in question doesn't want to leave the pitch the situation doesn't arise.

I can see what Trent is saying, but I imagine that it doesn't say much for team spirit if the other 10 players are effectively saying yes you are getting vile abuse but we are going to play on, your options are get subbed of or carry on taking all this ****. I would say that you have to back your team mate(s) up especially in something as serious as this.

It also seems you are suggesting that if the players walk off due to something like this they forfeit the match, I don't know the rules but that shouldn't be the case and if something like that happened there would be outrage - a team thrown out of the competition for taking a stand against racial abuse, the football authorities would be under so much pressure to replay the game or step in.

[baitman]

This leaving the pitch business seems the correct thing, but then possibly used by opposition racist fans to force your team to surrender a lead and walk off.
Your team may then get the decision, or maybe the governing body decides a replay is the way to go and you have inadvertently given them a second chance.
There is no clear definition of what the next step will be so you step into limbo and are at the whim of some officials who, as we all know, do love a backhander.

[Irishnev]

[ame="https://twitter.com/dipofaloyin/status/1230479710523678723"]https://twitter.com/dipofaloyin/status/1230479710523678723[/ame]

[Kenneth]

Wonder what would have happened if Holgate had walked off the field after the dodging the red card on Firmino.

[baitman]

Wonder what would have happened if Holgate had walked off the field after the dodging the red card on Firmino.

So easy for some bellend to blag it and play the race card, the balance of probability would be with them and everyone else would be too **** scared to call them out over it for fear of being labelled a racist...

[Exiled_red]

Out of interest what are the differences in policy between players getting racial abuse from other players. I have been assuming the abuse has been coming from the stands, in these situations usually the abuse will be fairly obvious to alot of people on the pitch in the ground etc. meaning that there is evidence for the appropriate bodies to review the effect of the players walking off the pitch.

But of course it could come from other players, if heard by the referee the player giving out the racial abuse should be sent off, in which case I don't see the players walking off. Obviously the referee doesn't always hear it so can't deal with it then if you are in the one person's word against another it becomes difficult for the ruling bodies to make a ruling.

[Mr Pink]

It also seems you are suggesting that if the players walk off due to something like this they forfeit the match, I don't know the rules but that shouldn't be the case and if something like that happened there would be outrage - a team thrown out of the competition for taking a stand against racial abuse, the football authorities would be under so much pressure to replay the game or step in.

Come on man, of course they forfeit the match if they walk off. Only the ref/officials have the authority to call off the match, not the players.. whether the ref should call off the match if there’s racist chants is another argument, but obviously players shouldn’t be able to (and aren’t). Your point about how the authorities would be under pressure to replay it- they can’t make up the rules as they go along. The other team would say wait a minute, that’s not in the rules, the ref didn’t stop the match, so sling yer hooks...

If you think it SHOULD be the rules - What is the threshold for when it’s acceptable to walk off? For example if we were 3-0 up against city and in the 85th minute sterling says he hears a single fan shouting a racist slur at him- are city entitled to walk off and get a replay?? I agree 100% that no one should have to put up with any level of racist abuse, and it’s crazy that it still happens in this day and age, but it has to be the refs responsibility to call off the game if needs be- otherwise players would chance their arm..

[SB]

I’d have thought if there was to be a replay due to players walking off you’d restart the match at the score line when they walked off eg 3-0 that you mentioned.

[SB]

https://twitter.com/dipofaloyin/stat...79710523678723

Liverpool were first to respond, with what turned out to be the strongest answer: "If one player walked off, everyone would walk off." Nice and simple, like their journey to the title.

.

[Exiled_red]

Come on man, of course they forfeit the match if they walk off. Only the ref/officials have the authority to call off the match, not the players.. whether the ref should call off the match if there’s racist chants is another argument, but obviously players shouldn’t be able to (and aren’t). Your point about how the authorities would be under pressure to replay it- they can’t make up the rules as they go along. The other team would say wait a minute, that’s not in the rules, the ref didn’t stop the match, so sling yer hooks...

If you think it SHOULD be the rules - What is the threshold for when it’s acceptable to walk off? For example if we were 3-0 up against city and in the 85th minute sterling says he hears a single fan shouting a racist slur at him- are city entitled to walk off and get a replay?? I agree 100% that no one should have to put up with any level of racist abuse, and it’s crazy that it still happens in this day and age, but it has to be the refs responsibility to call off the game if needs be- otherwise players would chance their arm..

Perhaps I could have been clearer in what I meant. Yes if the side walk off at that point the game is abandoned but it is up to the authorities to determine if the result should stand or the game be replayed of forfeit by the team that walked off. I know that there are rules for this when the referee abandons the match due to weather etc. Here again surely it is ultimately the referee who has to officially abandon the match, (due to one team having left) so my question is Is there a difference in how the footballing authorities view these different types of abandonment?

IMO if a team walks off the pitch after a player suffers racial abuse and they have followed the guidelines (talk to the referee, there have been stadium announcements etc and the abuse has continued the if the footballing authorities decided to punish the team that walked off after investigating the incident that would be a huge own goal and they would be under alot of pressure to at least replay the game.

You talk about a threshold, I don't think the game circumstances should come into it, it is about the abuse and following the guidelines, if it is a single fan and a single incident the procedures are different and it is unlikely that a walk off would occur, obviously there would be an investigation into the incident so the player would have to be confident that there is evidence of the abuse, but also if it is a single incident and the players walk off they haven't followed the guidelines and let the procedures in place attempt to deal with the problem so in that case firstly I don't think it would happen, secondly if the procedures haven't been followed then walking off is a more difficult position to defend. I feel that if a team is going to do this then they have to make sure they follow the correct procedure first.

[Mr Pink]

Perhaps I could have been clearer in what I meant. Yes if the side walk off at that point the game is abandoned but it is up to the authorities to determine if the result should stand or the game be replayed of forfeit by the team that walked off. I know that there are rules for this when the referee abandons the match due to weather etc. Here again surely it is ultimately the referee who has to officially abandon the match, (due to one team having left) so my question is Is there a difference in how the footballing authorities view these different types of abandonment?



IMO if a team walks off the pitch after a player suffers racial abuse and they have followed the guidelines (talk to the referee, there have been stadium announcements etc and the abuse has continued the if the footballing authorities decided to punish the team that walked off after investigating the incident that would be a huge own goal and they would be under alot of pressure to at least replay the game.



You talk about a threshold, I don't think the game circumstances should come into it, it is about the abuse and following the guidelines, if it is a single fan and a single incident the procedures are different and it is unlikely that a walk off would occur, obviously there would be an investigation into the incident so the player would have to be confident that there is evidence of the abuse, but also if it is a single incident and the players walk off they haven't followed the guidelines and let the procedures in place attempt to deal with the problem so in that case firstly I don't think it would happen, secondly if the procedures haven't been followed then walking off is a more difficult position to defend. I feel that if a team is going to do this then they have to make sure they follow the correct procedure first.

At the moment, if a player gets booked, they don’t retrospectively get punished, even if it was a suarezesque assault. The (stupid) logic that the authorities use, is that the ref has already “dealt” with it, in the game.

But you think that players should talk to the ref regarding racial abuse and if he doesn’t call off the game, the players should walk off... and then you expect the authorities to investigate and potentially give them a replay, against the ref’s in-game ruling??

Sorry I wasn’t clear about the threshold point- I meant what’s the threshold for when it’s enough abuse to call off the game.. if it’s an 80,000 seater, full stadium and one dickhead is making racist slurs, I don’t think the game should be called off. You can’t well define when enough is enough- that’s why I think it should only be up to the ref to call off a game for something like this. Also hope it’s clear that I think this kinda stuff is disgusting- I’d be impressed by a ref that did call off the game, award the win to the team on the receiving side, and recommend that the other team plays in an empty stadium for a few months..

[Exiled_red]

If a team walks off the pitch because a player is racially abused once by an individual fan or a small group the game is being forfeit. If the player is suffering racial abuse from one or a small number of fans repeatedly the procedure (I believe) is that the player reports the incident(s) to the referee and the stadium announcement can take place or they can try to identify the individual(s) involved and arrest them. If this doesn't happen and the players walk off the pitch then there is a IMO a question to be asked of the football authorities.

In walking off the pitch in the latter circumstances what is effectively being said is that 'we have followed your procedures for this incident and they haven't allowed the situation to be resolved therefore we were left with no choice...' The player(s) are not being offered the appropriate protections. In these circumstances I think that the footballing authorities would be under huge pressure not to punish the team whose player was abused by making them forfeit the match.

If the referee is not informed and players just walk off then they have not given the procedures (and hence the fauthorities) a chance to deal with the problem, they have just walked off the pitch for some unknown reason in those circumstances the game would be forfeit.