He really did put a shift in! He'd be utter **** in our current system though.
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Was muß, das muß. -
Not sure tbh, he would nowadays cos his legs have gone, but he was a tireless intelligent runner who had a habit of finding space & making it for others.
Brendog would probably play him at right back though- haha.3rd place. Worst champions ever.
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Ouch!Originally posted by Liverpel View Posthttp://www.theguardian.com/football/...chester-united
What if … Sir Alex Ferguson replaced David Moyes at United tomorrow
It is highly implausible but if Fergie were to return, Manchester United would quickly improve – because managing that club at that level is what he does
Regardless of what discourse, snobbery and reverse snobbery might have you believe, it's possible to like both porterhouse and Skips; each has a purpose, and rarely are they interchangeable. And people are the same, tolerable, lovable and brilliant in different circumstances and contexts, the trick in aligning them correctly.
So, there is no guarantee that Sir Alex Ferguson would have done better at Everton than David Moyes, in the same way that if you need to escape the Championship, Mick McCarthy is your man – provided you're prepared to sack him immediately afterwards. Accordingly, were Fergie to return, United would quickly improve, because managing that club at that level is what he does. Of course, it will never happen; the foxy old so-and-so knew precisely what he was leaving, such that there's more chance of his admitting culpability than returning to be shamed by it and his successor.
Because, quite simply, things could not have gone any less well, the performances extracted by Moyes unimaginably horrific to the point of extreme hilarity. Had United been managed by Basil Brush, Moira Stuart, Clive Gibbons, or no one at all, it's hard to conceive a less optimal state of affairs, and consequently, he could have few complaints if advised that his future lay elsewhere. And it might even do him a favour, given the games to come – along with Olympiakos, both Liverpool and Manchester City visit Old Trafford in March, so things will likely get worse before they get worse still.
In 27 league games so far this season, United have yet to produce a single suitable display, such that last weekend's struggle at Palace was deemed adequate. But the reality is that they've made no discernible improvement; the purported "good run" around Christmas came against poor teams, and the level and nature of performance has remained roughly the same, though results have varied. Meanwhile, in Europe, things have been only marginally better, and only thanks to Leverkusen expecting to play Manchester United, not Moyes's United. Domestically, only Arsenal have made this error, the upshot of a profound and longstanding inferiority complex – but it is clear that they will have overcome their fear by the time the teams next meet.
And fear would be where Fergie would start, restoring it not in opposition players but his own. Because their overwhelming indolence indicates that they clearly have none for Moyes; it's not that he's lost the dressing room, more that he never had it to begin with. If nothing else, the accompanying abuse and punishments would satisfy supporters for whom the intersection of enough with enough was reached some time ago – even if the insubordination, though indefensible, is understandable. For several, their careers at United are precious to them, and at stake; if Moyes stays, they go. So, were making his position untenable their only option, it might be thought worth the embarrassment, given the irredeemable failure of this season in any event.
But should the resultant incandescent rage fail, there'd always be the crutch of disappointment. Guilt ought already to be operational, on account of the manager whose job they're losing, and those investing time, money and liver following them – but letting down a parent brings with it an inimitable aspect.
Once the players were suitably crushed and broken – a swift and pleasing process that would benefit from rapprochement with Roy Keane – it would be time to rebuild them. Though there have been trust issues regarding Moyes, more significantly, they have stopped trusting themselves, losing all confidence, conviction and aggression – a team you'd be delighted to encounter down a dark alley.
In particular, they have forgotten how to defend, attack, and transition between the two, wandering through games in a fugue state before delivering interviews as soporific as their performances. What's required are stern and unambiguous reminders as to who they are, what they represent, and the spirit that demands, along with coaching and tactics tailored to their abilities and needs, rather than a pre-existing pro forma that was reasonably successful at Everton.
Specifically, the notion that football is a simple and enjoyable game would be re-established, good players trusted to be good at playing, attacking combinations practised properly. And when defending corners, some men would be left upfield, not just to enable a swift counter, but to prevent opponents, first from piling into the box, and then from being given a second chance to threaten, after the ball has been cleared straight back at them. To facilitate all this, the conveniently available René Meulensteen would return, with his various replacements taking their pick of the myriad jobs inevitably offered to men of their pedigree and potential.
Attention would then turn to individuals, beginning with the defence. Patrice Evra, Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand are well past their best, and under Moyes, likely to leave in the summer. But Fergie always understood the value of players who know how to live, prepare and win – a major distinction between him and Arsène Wenger, who broke up his last championship side too soon. So, at least one of the three would stay – in any event, Evra would be a far better deputy than Alex Büttner – but ideally a centre-back, too. And more important even than that would be the rejuvenation of Rafael da Silva, one of United's best players last season and a reliable bundle of enthusiasm, energy and bronca, turned into a listless lump of impotent resentment by a manager who clearly doesn't rate him..
In front of them, the need for two magnificent midfielders is too obvious to be neglected, but the same has been so for so long that it would be absurd to assume an epiphany. Nonetheless, in the potential meantime, it's fair to expect improved deployment of resources, to protect the defence and supply quick possession for the better players in front of them.
Speaking of whom, Adnan Januzaj would undergo an immediate change of circumstance. Spending the Olympiakos trip reclining at home, exhausted after his month off, so conserving energy for the games of even less significance which begin in 12 days' time, he will be absent less frequently. Though Fergie rested Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs whenever he could, he was able to replace one with either the other or Andrei Kanchelskis, and they were not as important to their team as Januzaj is to his. Even so, they were rarely, if ever, excluded from the biggest games – their fearlessness was trusted, and gaining experience preferred to experience.
Next, a decision would be made as to the futures of Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie; given the relative permanence of Januzaj and Juan Mata, United's need for pace is such that there is room only for one of them. Rooney is younger, but has played more, looked after himself less well, and shown signs of decline; Van Persie has suffered more serious injuries, is less versatile and dynamic, but better in his position.
Either way, neither is required as a stalking horse. With Fergie back, the club sells itself to new recruits, no longer so beholden to individuals as to consider outside impressions when allocating contracts. And having seen the charisma void created by his exit, Fergie might now consider it the critical quality to demand of his eventual replacement, and recall it as the foundation of his best teams.
Which is not to say that with his return, everything would suddenly be resolved; and perhaps the control would be less, the reputation damaged, the aura faded. Yes, United would be better – but yes United would still be walloped by any half-decent team lucky enough to make their acquaintance.
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I think it has shown down the years for the Netherlands that if the team isn't setup correctly to service him he really struggles. I think it was a mistake of Moyes to keep him as he was obviously ill suited to his game plan (obviously he could have adapted the way he plays similarly to the way Rodgers has to accommodate our best players but that doesn't seem to have ever been an option he considered).Originally posted by Shaggy View PostMost of my United mates now think they play better (albeit not a great deal) when van Persie isn't in the team - similar to how it wound up for van Nistelrooy - and want him dropped. Not arsed, doesn't want to be there etc."The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
-- William BlakeComment
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[ame="https://twitter.com/mirrorfootball/status/439460206632640512"]https://twitter.com/mirrorfootball/status/439460206632640512[/ame]
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Manchester United are poised to play a series of lucrative friendlies abroad next season to offset what could be a minimum £20m loss for failure to qualify for the Champions League and Europa League.
With United constantly offered multi-million-pound deals to play around the world in exhibition and testimonial games, the club hierarchy is confident of filling the financial void left by a dismal season, and has already started planning for the potential absence from European competition next term. David Moyes's side are in sixth, 11 points from a Champions League place.
With United having turned down a sizeable offer to play a friendly during their recent warm-weather break in Dubai, the prospective opposition could be against teams from the Middle East, China or America.
For reaching the Champions League last-16 last season United received £28.9m from Uefa, plus around £2m per home game from ticket sales. With the club having played four matches in that campaign at Old Trafford – three group games and the second last-16 leg – that means United earned nearly £35m from the competition.
United are working on a loss of around £20m for failure to play in either of Uefa's club competitions and believe playing friendlies overseas during the gap in their schedule will help recoup a sizeable proportion of this.
United played a testimonial in Saudi Arabia, in January 2008, for the former Wolverhampton Wanderers reserve team player Sami Al-Jaber. The team jetted out to the Middle East directly after a Premier League game against Reading on a Saturday for the friendly two days later in what was a 6,000-mile round trip.
While that exercise yielded the club around £1m, during the six intervening years the increase in social media and new pay-per-view models means they could expect to earn considerable sums from other friendlies, beyond any appearance money offered by the hosts.
United made last August's pre-season friendly with the Swedish side AIK available on pay-per-view for £5.95. With the club's huge global fan base, the earnings from matches sold in this way next year are potentially lucrative.
United will also have noted how Rio Ferdinand's testimonial against Sevilla later that month is thought to have been watched by a global audience of several million, who took in the game for free via BT Sport and the defender's own website.
That rug really tied the room together.Comment
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I'm sure the public will be clamouring to pay to see friendlies featuring David Moyes' clueless bunch of nobodies. Talk about deluded, they're a nothing team living in the past.Comment
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Make of this video what you will but if it’s taken on merit then it’s a pretty damning assessment of United’s tactics and failure to utilise Shinji Kagawa properly.
This highlights packages highlights the amount of times Kagawa got himself into a good position only for his teammates, Ashley Young in particular, choosing to completely ignore him. Instead they choose to play it down the wing time and time again – it reminds me of my tactics on FIFA.
Of course the one time they do play it into Kagawa he plays a lovely through ball which leads to RVP’s chance. However, it needs to be pointed out that this could be a slight misrepresentation and they’ve ignored the times Kagawa gave the ball away. FourFourTwo have him at four failed passes and ten successful balls.
That rug really tied the room together.Comment
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Carragher's column in the Daily Mail:
Had David Moyes been manager of any other major club in Europe, there is every chance he would be out of his job now.
The powerhouses, from Chelsea to Real Madrid to Bayern Munich, do not suffer the kind of season Manchester United have endured without taking ruthless action, and defeat like the one against Olympiacos would have been the end for Moyes anywhere else.
Chelsea, remember, sacked Andre Villas-Boas after a dreadful 3-1 defeat against Napoli at the same stage of the Champions League two years ago.
United, however, are different. Like Liverpool and Arsenal, they do things in what I believe to be the right way. History shows they do not panic or make kneejerk reactions: even Tommy Docherty was not sacked when United were relegated to the old second division in 1974.
But just because United have not panicked doesn’t mean they won’t be anxious and nobody knows what the Glazer family are thinking. Moyes deserves until Christmas to show he can be a success but, as a wise football man, he will be aware losing makes positions become untenable.
Watching United labour against Olympiacos brought back memories of the situation Roy Hodgson experienced in his brief stay at Liverpool in 2010; the shock home defeats, the unexpected cup exits and certain players letting the manager down badly.
The way Robin van Persie, for instance, is playing reminds me of the way Fernando Torres was with Hodgson. His goal record might be good, as was Torres’ for Hodgson, but the quotes that he has made and the stories surrounding him make it feel like Van Persie isn’t behind Moyes.
He didn’t miss a game last season in the Barclays Premier League but this year he has been in and out – is he thinking about the World Cup? – while his demeanour has served only to increase the perception there are problems. Torres did exactly the same.
If a manager loses his players, there is often no way back and an issue Moyes has to contend with at the moment is the fact he is the focus of the criticism; United’s players will know this and can hide behind that, rather than looking at their own shortcomings. Again, that happened with Hodgson.
To see Moyes now, he looks shell-shocked. The Moyes I knew at Everton would never have been so amenable in television interviews after seeing his side perform as badly as United did in Greece.
When he was at Everton, you would see the anger in his face and his answers would be short. You knew he felt let down by his team but, equally, you knew he would drag a response out of his team.
Last season, after losing to Wigan in the FA Cup, Everton beat Manchester City 2-0 seven days later.
That ability to galvanise was one of Moyes’ great strengths. A year earlier, after Liverpool had beaten them in the FA Cup semi-final, Everton responded the following week with a 4-4 draw at Old Trafford, having looked dead and buried. He wouldn’t accept his team just falling away.
Before the game in Greece he spoke about United being compact but the team he picked had two wingers and two strikers – if a manager plays that system and gets a result, he is regarded as brave. If it backfires, he is naive.
It is almost as if he’s caught between the Manchester United way and his own mentality. He is not a front-foot manager – that is not a criticism, as neither is Jose Mourinho – but there doesn’t look to be any fizz or fight about United. They don’t look to be one thing or the other.
I’d go as far as to say this is the slowest United side I have seen and in Piraeus they looked like a team of old men coming to the end. Facing United used to be unnerving, as you never knew how they would play.
Evra could follow Vidic out the door to join Inter with Sagna also on Italian side's hit-list
Manchester United will not allow striker Van Persie to leave Old Trafford this summer
United season-ticket holders told: Buy a ticket for Olympiacos at home or you can't watch the Manchester derby!
If they wanted to pass you to sleep, they would do it without a problem. But if they wanted to pick you off on the break, they had the speed and cutting edge to shred you to pieces. The two signings of Juan Mata and Marouane Fellaini won’t change that, as they don’t have pace.
Moyes, it must be said, is also having no luck – the deflection that aided Joel Campbell’s second goal for Olympiacos epitomised how things are going – and he has said that often in press conferences - but is he just genuinely unlucky or is he a manager who comes up short?
He did a magnificent job at Preston and took them to the brink of the Premier League before losing the play-off final against Bolton in 2001; the work he did in reviving Everton was beyond question but in those legacy-defining games – Villarreal (2005), Chelsea (2009), Liverpool (2012) – it was just one hurdle too many.
It is not unusual, of course, for managers to have poor first seasons at big clubs before turning things round. Gerard Houllier, Rafa Benitez (Istanbul apart!) and Brendan Rodgers all found life difficult at Anfield but there was no sense they were ever in trouble.
They were given the confidence and belief to build their projects and that is what United are doing with Moyes. Deep down, though, he and his board will know they can’t keep on losing. He needs an attention-grabbing victory, the kind United used to achieve regularly, to settle the nerves.Comment
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I see.Oh I don't know.Comment
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