Joe Allen [Sold]

[el matador]

Anything after may is considered young for the age group. Kids born in august are often playing against kids who are nearly a full year older than they are

At that age of nine or ten thats a massive gap. Thats why kids born in those months tend to be morw skilfull because they dont have the phyical advantages of september babies and have to develop other skills than just being strong and quick.

For me getting youth football right isnt rocket sxience and this is how I would do it.

1. Improve the facilities and pitches for kids so they have access to good all weather surfaces all year round. If they cant so that then make fooball a summer sport when the.pitches arent pure mud.
2. Improve the standard of coaching and get rid of all the dickheads who destroy kids confidence during matches and are only ibterested in winning. Better training and kit for coaches.
3. Provide a proper competitive structure so that the best kids play each other regardless of age.
4. Make sure the kids enjoy themselves

[Neil Young]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I agree with your 4 point manifesto. How do you structure kids football, if not by age groups?

[el matador]

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2008/...nd-making.html

The point is the effects of birth month are cumulative. Otherwise it would all even out in time. Plus other effects - most notably early versus late onset of puberty - would swamp it, at least for a while.

I'm sure physical size has something - probably quite a lot - to do with it. But again I suggest there are other issues, particularly cultural ones, both to do with Asian communities and British society as a whole.

I would say that applied to second and third generation asians but fourth generation ones are encouraged to play sports. We want our kids to become doctors lawyers accountants but ones who are wicked at footie.

[el matador]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I agree with your 4 point manifesto. How do you structure kids football, if not by age groups?

It has to be done by school years but if kids are too good for their own age group why not move them up a year. The fa have brought out rules to say that once kids get to under 11's they cant play a year or more above.

The whole point about street football was that you played against much bigger lads and that helped bring your game on. You learned from the elders but that doesnt happen any more.

[Neil Young]

I would say that applied to second and third generation asians but fourth generation ones are encouraged to play sports. We want our kids to become doctors lawyers accountants but ones who are wicked at footie.

I was thinking more specifically of sporting culture but yeah, the broader cultural norms and expectations have to be important. Interesting that they're changing (as they seemingly inevitably tend to do as communities become more embedded).

[el matador]

Neil that article is spot on.

Those stats are proven in football as well. but this is where the second teams and third teams etc come into it. They should be.geared towards heavy technical development so that the kids who are young foe the age group can still play football against other kids in similar situations. Have the technical players play against each other and the bruisers play each other.

[Neil Young]

It has to be done by school years but if kids are too good for their own age group why not move them up a year. The fa have brought out rules to say that once kids get to under 11's they cant play a year or more above.

The whole point about street football was that you played against much bigger lads and that helped bring your game on. You learned from the elders but that doesnt happen any more.

Sure...but I thought that was exactly the problem, in that those born in August were constantly up against those born almost a year earlier. Isn't that a contradiction?

Has there been any research on the importance of sibling position? For instance, I was always a better footballer than my older brother and his younger son was better than his older son. Then again oldest kids can often be more ambitious...

[Neil Young]

Neil that article is spot on.

Those stats are proven in football as well. but this is where the second teams and third teams etc come into it. They should be.geared towards heavy technical development so that the kids who are young foe the age group can still play football against other kids in similar situations. Have the technical players play against each other and the bruisers play each other.

Good point, makes perfect sense.

[el matador]

I was thinking more specifically of sporting culture but yeah, the broader cultural norms and expectations have to be important. Interesting that they're changing (as they seemingly inevitably tend to do as communities become more embedded).

If you speak to most first generation asians they.will tell you that cricket apart there is very little sporting culture in the families. Second generations thus werent encouraged to play football and even positively discouraged from playing sports. Third and fourth generations are different because third generations have good sports culture and fourth generations are born into it. My kids are fourth gen and all play sports and have done so from ages 4 onwards.

It might be that the fourth generation of asians might be the ones to break the mould and take that step into pro sports.

[el matador]

Sure...but I thought that was exactly the problem, in that those born in August were constantly up against those born almost a year earlier. Isn't that a contradiction?

Has there been any research on the importance of sibling position? For instance, I was always a better footballer than my older brother and his younger son was better than his older son. Then again oldest kids can often be more ambitious...

Firztly some kida come along who break the age barriers. I had one kid who was dynamite but he was a year below everyone else. This kid could score six seven goals every game but fa rules dictate he couldnt move up even though he was ready.

The rules are there to protect the masses but occasionally when a lad like this turns up he mustnt be held back.

Secondly the.point about the younger ones being hetter is also proven by stats and thats down to one thing. Competition for resources.

The younger ones learn to fight for everything from an early age because the older brotherz dont share easily. They learn to fight and learn how to compete quickly otherwise they never get anything.

[Neil Young]

In other words, younger brothers .



Thanks mate, interesting to read your well-informed views.

Makes a refreshing change on here...

[Cormack74]

Anything after may is considered young for the age group. Kids born in august are often playing against kids who are nearly a full year older than they are

I coach junior rugby where size is even more of an asset and therefore even more of an issue when there is this sort of age disparity.

The RFU have acknowledged the issue to some extent by tinkering with what levels of physical contact are allowed at the younger age groups but IMO it would make more sense to organise junior rugby on the basis of players weight.

Can't see why they couldn't do something similar in football based on players height.

[el matador]

Ive been coaching for nearly five years now and its something im passionate about.

I dont mind talking.about my experiences as a youth.coach or my philosophy on their development. The most important thing is kids learning the key values of fitness discipline teamwork and a love for footy.

When you realise that only one in ten thousand make it into the professional game it tells you just how tough it is to make it as a footballer. so we teach them football and other skills that will serve them well in their lives.

If they make it its 10% of their salary as per our contractual agreement !!

[el matador]

I coach junior rugby where size is even more of an asset and therefore even more of an issue when there is this sort of age disparity.

The RFU have acknowledged the issue to some extent by tinkering with what levels of physical contact are allowed at the younger age groups but IMO it would make more sense to organise junior rugby on the basis of players weight.

There was an article I read a few years back called the 'brownisation of new zealand rugby' and it talked about how the samoans fijians etx were pushing white kids out of rugby becauee the white kids of the same age were being pulverised by the much bigger islanders. Kids were getting seriously hurt and its worrying when you hear stuff like that.

The height criteria you talk about is already in place at certain clubs. Its called bio banding but I think its a waste of time.

[davegrady1]

There was an article I read a few years back called the 'brownisation of new zealand rugby' and it talked about how the samoans fijians etx were pushing white kids out of rugby becauee the white kids of the same age were being pulverised by the much bigger islanders. Kids were getting seriously hurt and its worrying when you hear stuff like that.

The height criteria you talk about is already in place at certain clubs. Its called bio banding but I think its a waste of time.

You see the same in Rugby League as well a lot of Islanders are coming through. Most are built like brick ****houses and are explosive, I definitely wouldn't want to play them in either code. Though looking at the All Blacks team and i'm not an expert in Rugby but it seems all the skill positions in the team or most are filled by white kiwis. I say this with no racism intended, and it seems like it's a similar situation for you guys in UK for soccer with the big players having the physical attributes and the smaller players having more skill, technical and potentially tactical ability.