Joe Allen [Sold]

[kev776]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I agree with your 4 point manifesto. How do you structure kids football, if not by age groups?

Here in Germany it is based on age but with annual movement of kids.

Each group spends 2 years in one age group and at the end of the season the older kids from each group are promoted to the next higher group i.e.


year born 95 and 96 = B Jugend
year born 97 and 98 = C Jugend.
year born 99 and 2000 = D jugend

Next year 95 gets promoted to A Jugend and year 97 will join 96 as the new B Jugend.

99 will join 98 as the new C jugend etc.

So all kids spend 2 years in one group, one years with kids one year older than themselves and the following year with the group directly below them or one year younger.

Also kids are restricted to what size pitch they play on and the numbers playing in each team, long passes and long goal kicks are severely frowned upon to encourage short passing and movement. At all times during training the kids should have a ball at their feet even if they have to go to the toilet they jog off with a ball. The most important of all is to make it fun or they get bored and won't come back.

[ronanm]

Here in Germany it is based on age but with annual movement of kids.

Each group spends 2 years in one age group and at the end of the season the older kids from each group are promoted to the next higher group i.e.


year born 95 and 96 = B Jugend
year born 97 and 98 = C Jugend.
year born 99 and 2000 = D jugend

Next year 95 gets promoted to A Jugend and year 97 will join 96 as the new B Jugend.

99 will join 98 as the new C jugend etc.

So all kids spend 2 years in one group, one years with kids one year older than themselves and the following year with the group directly below them or one year younger.

Also kids are restricted to what size pitch they play on and the numbers playing in each team, long passes and long goal kicks are severely frowned upon to encourage short passing and movement. At all times during training the kids should have a ball at their feet even if they have to go to the toilet they jog off with a ball. The most important of all is to make it fun or they get bored and won't come back.

Interesting. It's good to see what steps are being made to make the game more inclusive at underage level.

When I was a kid in Ireland, I used to be able to score from the halfway line on a full size pitch as the keepers were too small and often misjudged the bounce of the ball That was at u-11. I found u-12 physically tough and by u-13/14 was battered round the place to the extent i stopped going.

[BigChief]

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2008/...nd-making.html

I'm sure physical size has something - probably quite a lot - to do with it. But again I suggest there are other issues, particularly cultural ones, both to do with Asian communities and British society as a whole.

I agree size has a lot to do with it. But its a cyclical argument. Why would an Asian player get easily brushed off a ball when compared to, for example, Joe Allen, Paul Scholes, Nuri Sahin, Xavi, etc, etc. (Really trying to avoid midgets statement!)

The football in the prem is designed for big guys, so the little ones will be overlooked. Asians are little, so they are the ones that fall mainly in the overlooked category. What can we do to change this? Change the way we play football to tiki taka.

But tiki taka is a long term commitment for most clubs fighting relegation or remaining midtable, so will stick to big guys football. And the argument goes around again. Football in this country has been in a rut for 50 years and I don't see anyway out. If anything, the added pressures of gate money, going bust, etc, has only killed any hopes of tiki taka (therefore smaller players, and therefore Asians) further. Reducing the chances of England winning anything to negligible.

New turfs, etc, are not going to change old survival mentalities. The likes of Rodgers are few and far between. For every Rodgers you'll have ten Pulis or Allardyces.

[Vermilion]

The Welsh Xavi.

[kris90210]

if youve played a bit of footie and are genuinely interested in developing players then go along to one of your local amateur clubs and say you want to get involved.

What they will do is to allocate you a specific group of kids from say reception and you work with them until open age if you want.

The key thing when working with kids is that if you want to prove the tactical prowess you think you have because of five seasons playing champ manager on the pc then this isnt the right environment for you. Simply because you want to win and youth football and winning shouldnt come in the same sentence.

However, if you genuinely want to work with kids and you have their best interests at heart and not your own then you can take enormous satisfaction from seeing them grow into little footballers right infront of your eyes.

Its ridiculously rewarding but be prepared to commit at least one if not two evenings a week to training. Sunday mornings for matches and probably another four - five hours per week planning sessions, tweaking tactics, preparing for games etc...

You seem like a nice guy and as long as you're not in this for yourself you will do just fine.

It's not about living out some Champ Man fantasy. I'm a teacher mate. Looking at going into primary over the next couple of months. So would be the perfect opportunity really. I'm still toying with the idea, but I've looked into going on a training course for it.

[kris90210]

Sorry mate I dont know who gladwell is but I guess all youth sports are the same. But a study was done of pro academies in the uk and the first teams were all dominated by september to december kids.

This was also very true in our team with nine out of the 12 players were born between sept and dec. The only exception were three lads who all happened to be the most skillful players in the team and were all may to august births.

Here's a book I'm sure you'd enjoy:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth-Talent-Power-Practice/dp/0007350546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349183029&sr=8-1

[kev776]

Kids tend to love anything to do with sport as long as it is well organised and a safe environment. It is true that kids who have older brothers/sister will be better fighters and have a greater will to get on and be the best

To become a kids football trainer not only do you have to give up time but you have to learn diplomacy when dealing with parents. Little Johnny may be a future Fowler in Mammy's eyes but certainly not in yours.

Young kids have no idea what their natural position is, make them play in all positions, there will be a few surprises there.

There is also child growth, dexterity and co-ordination to take into account so ensure any lesson plans include this in the warm up and make sure you do it correctly by having it checked out before you introduce something new, it is easy to damage a kid with a bad but well meaning group of exercises.

Communication is the secret, talk to the senior trainers about plans and most importantly talk to the parents, involve them as much as possible (you may need them for away games when the bus doesn't turn up or some other team has booked it)

Parents tend to like to see the group discipline to the fore and teaching the kids about team ethics (saves them a job) many kids have never operated as a team and have to learn so be patient.

There is no secret, you don't need a degree in kidology, just be yourself and have fun with the kids, the more you put in, the better they respond and as El Mat said the rewards are fantastic.

There are good kids here now in their 20's all still playing at a decent level (some semi-professional) and all still greet me as an old friend and talk about their training they had as kids.

[kris90210]

Thanks Kev

[Cormack74]

There was an article I read a few years back called the 'brownisation of new zealand rugby' and it talked about how the samoans fijians etx were pushing white kids out of rugby becauee the white kids of the same age were being pulverised by the much bigger islanders. Kids were getting seriously hurt and its worrying when you hear stuff like that.

The height criteria you talk about is already in place at certain clubs. Its called bio banding but I think its a waste of time.

Interesting; hadn't heard of this. Why don't you like it?

[el matador]

Im just not a fan. The idea is to get kids of the same age group playing together often with their friends. Its not rugby where theres extreme physical contact so small lads can get hurt. The smaller lads in football tend to be bullied off the ball more but not hurt. Theres lots of ways to look at this but in one session I watched it didnt look right.

If you organised the groups say by ability instead so you could have three age groups all mixed up by ability. So all the best players played against each other regardless of age. It would help all the players especially the younger ones.

I dont think you could do this all the time but occasionally with specially organised sessions. It would be really good for all the groups.

[DannyMan2006]

In the last year of primary school I was the tallest and strongest. I could also kick the ball the furthest and was the fastest. I was also rubbish technically.

Even worse tactically and positional sense was next to nothing. I learned all that and improved much later in life due to taking to football much later. It's all relative. I hardly played a game for my primary school team. My birth month was June btw. Well, still is, lol.

The best player in our team was from the year below and the only player to be taking on as a pro to my knowledge.

Even more weirder was that our keeper was the smallest person in my year. Not surprisingly our team never won anything.

What is less amazing is that I was never once in either primary or secondary school taken aside and shown how to actually kick a ball properly. I only learned to hit it with my instep by looking at text books.

Shocking state of coaching at that level. I learned most from a footy skills video & book by Michael Owen, with a cameo by Carra at defending.

Lesson for coaches. Teach everyone the basics and then before you know it they'll be a class above others.

[el matador]

Unfortunately dan thats the experience of most kids atschool.

But its hard to teach 40 kids football when youre by yourself and without a proper idea about the basics. My football training at school was literally run to the end of the pitch and back to warm up amd then split up into two massive teams and then having to scrap every minute for the ball.

Really it was ****. Recently I went to a school tournament that my ten year old son was playing in and unfortunately his PE teacher was absolutely clueless about football tactics and formations. Honestly it was so bad I had to laugh.

Even the kids most of whom attend our club and some of whom I train personally were rolling their ryes at this guy. I even offered to help being crb checked and a coach but he wasnt interested. At my own team we havw two coaches for twelve kids so the attention per child is much higher.

School sport is uncompetitive and rubbish. Really all schools are good for is identifying potential talents in some of the lesser sports like athletics and cricket. a lot of youngsters especially where I live attent amateur football academies so schoolPE teachers have no excuse because the players are already being produced for them.

I know a couple of PE teachers and the rule is to qualify you have to be proficient in at least ten different sports. How the hell can the help develop talent when theyre so stretched. Imo kids shohld be doing an hour of pe every day especially the ones who dont do evening clubs or participate at amateur clubs.

[Cormack74]

Imo kids shohld be doing an hour of pe every day especially the ones who dont do evening clubs or participate at amateur clubs.

I may have got my facts slightly wrong but anyway this is somewhere about right I think:

In New Zealand (the world's strongest rugby team over many decades and leaving aside your comments about the influence of the Pacific islands) there is I believe no junior club rugby.

But (and it's a big but) kids in schools get 10 sessions a week.

10 sessions FFS. You wouldn't even get that at an independent school over here.

[el matador]

Two hours a week at secondary school level is what they put aside for pe. I would do more definitely but its tough.

Anyway theres also a phenomenon known as over coaching. Its basically where we take kids and srill them into a mould of the type of player we want. This means that we end up with more robots like andy sinton and less natural talents like goetze (what a talent this lad is) and ozil.

Coaches were telling kids to pass and thats important but so is natural talent and if you have someone who is skillful then you must allow him space to express himself and develop.

We do see that a lot too.

Anyway this thread has been hijacked and needs to be returned to its righful state. joe allen is a highly talented player with a massive future ahead of him.

[yamiedo]

Joe Allen.