General Football 23/24

[Fredo]

[ame]https://twitter.com/fut21news/status/1336408047812567048[/ame]

[Fredo]

Easy to say, but you have to define 'this', and then what's proportional to it.

There are no ifs, buts or nuances in this. This sort of stuff should be eradicated from the game or there is no football. Glad the players took a stance.

[Kenneth]

There are no ifs, buts or nuances in this. This sort of stuff should be eradicated from the game or there is no football. Glad the players took a stance.

There absolutely is. 'This sort of stuff" is not good enough. Identifying someone by their race is a long way off racially abusing someone, to deny that is willfully ignorant. Neither should happen, but the response to both does not need to be the same, and I think it would be unhelpful if it were.

[Fredo]

Referring to someone by their skin colour is not acceptable. It’s not abuse but it’s not acceptable. It’s easy to get caught by the semantics but it would be helpful not to have them in the first place and not allow that sort of language.

[Scratch]

Referring to someone by their skin colour is not acceptable. It’s not abuse but it’s not acceptable. It’s easy to get caught by the semantics but it would be helpful not to have them in the first place and not allow that sort of language.

Using black as a descriptive is not racist, surely? Unless said with venom or animosity, but in this instance I don't think it was. Just a simple way of singling out the culprit?

[Mr Pink]

There absolutely is. 'This sort of stuff" is not good enough. Identifying someone by their race is a long way off racially abusing someone, to deny that is willfully ignorant. Neither should happen, but the response to both does not need to be the same, and I think it would be unhelpful if it were.

it was a bad choice of words, but I think it’s harsh to label it racist/abusive and think it was an overreaction from Istanbul- I wonder would they have walked out, if they weren’t already mathematically guaranteed to finish bottom..

[Fredo]

Using black as a descriptive is not racist, surely? Unless said with venom or animosity, but in this instance I don't think it was. Just a simple way of singling out the culprit?

The point Demba Ba was making is why not say “this guy” instead of “this black guy”. I think the law should be that this kind of stuff should be banned. Makes it easier to manage. Singling out anyone by their skin colour should not be allowed. Just point to the culprit.

[Bender]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Koeman and Solskaer sacked in the morning

[Kenneth]

The point Demba Ba was making is why not say “this guy” instead of “this black guy”. I think the law should be that this kind of stuff should be banned. Makes it easier to manage. Singling out anyone by their skin colour should not be allowed. Just point to the culprit.

That's just not practical. Making things illegal that could be perfectly legitimate in some contexts for convenience is bad law, and an unacceptable infringement. And it would probably also be counterproductive, increasing racial tensions rather than helping reduce them.

Police descriptions of suspects would become more contrived and less useful for a start.

[McDermotX]

'Carnage', Gary ?

Really ? 'Carnage'

That's helpful

[Scratch]

'Carnage', Gary ?

Really ? 'Carnage'

That's helpful

Who's Gary, and what did they say? Neville?

[ChesterDave]

This is the same thing that came up in the Library thread the other day.

It shouldn't be seen as racist (well, I don't think so at least). Identifying a person by a feature that eliminates more alternative candidates than another descriptive feature makes sense. Did we all play 'Guess Who' as a child?

However for 'the black guy' when they are so often the only or one of a minimal number of black guys present it must get utterly tedious and frustrating that it is the go to reference point about them.

[Rigadon]

This is the same thing that came up in the Library thread the other day.

It shouldn't be seen as racist (well, I don't think so at least). Identifying a person by a feature that eliminates more alternative candidates than another descriptive feature makes sense. Did we all play 'Guess Who' as a child?

However for 'the black guy' when they are so often the only or one of a minimal number of black guys present it must get utterly tedious and frustrating that it is the go to reference point about them.

Well put

Being called ‘black’ (or ‘white’) shouldn’t be a negative. However, it’s often used to put someone down (‘black cunt’ ‘white trash’). We have a long way to go before things get better. Maybe we should all go gender and race neutral - everyone becomes ‘it’

[labourRed]

Referring to someone by their skin colour is not acceptable. It’s not abuse but it’s not acceptable. It’s easy to get caught by the semantics but it would be helpful not to have them in the first place and not allow that sort of language.

It may or may not have been racist but to me it wasn't acceptable. I can count on no fingers the amount of times I was called a white guy in my middle aged life.

[Kenneth]

But how many times has 'the white guy' been a useful discriminator for anybody in your life?

I agree that it's inappropriate, but there was an overreaction. I agree entirely with leaving the field when necessary to protect players who are being abused, they shouldn't have to put up with that and continue, but this doesn't have that same urgency, it can be dealt with differently, by UEFA after the game.