General Football 23/24

[RichC]

Players leaving the pitch is a protest.

Why should a consensus be reached on anything like this? Walking off the pitch is a deeply personal decision and reaction to a deeply personal experience.

It's not up to you set some sort of threshold of acceptable practice based on some kind of arbitrary consensus.

[dom9]

It's certainly up to me where I think that threshold is.

What is or is not reasonable as a protest is always determined via consensus, and usually defined by law, kit by the individual. The idea that it can't be judged is bizarre.

Well, you're entitled to an opinion.

But what is and isn't a reasonable protest is so often not determined by concensus.

By definition, a protest "a statement or action expressing disapproval or objection to something". So by definition, a concensus is not often even possible in many instances - particularly if a protest takes place against authorities (even fourth officials). Whether it's legal or not is one aspect. A legal protest in the UK could easily be an illegal protest in Hong Kong, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia or many other places. But it is only one aspect. If an individual feels the need to protest against something, that is their prerogative.

****ing hell, look at the toppling of the Colston statue. People are still squabbling about that here. There won't be a concensus on that any time soon.

COVID protesters are breaking the law with their protests. I don't agree with them. Many people don't agree with them. But they are convinced their protest is legitimate.

[Kenneth]

Indeed, and you've formed a view on the proportionality of their protest. But they would like to convince you and others, and invoke change by convincing others, but their methods probably turn more people off. My argument is that Ba's protest (the most substantial to date) directed at an incident of racist abuse would have been a powerful message that strengthened the argument against racism in the public sphere. Ba's protest to an incident that many won't view as racist at all, others will deem a bit dodgy or inappropriate may well give the impression that football's anti racism message as a whole is over the top, that the problems are more trivial than reality, which is not necessarily helpful to the wider aims. Because of that, I, personally, don't think it was an appropriate reaction.

[dom9]

Indeed, and you've formed a view on the proportionality of their protest. But they would like to convince you and others, and invoke change by convincing others, but their methods probably turn more people off. My argument is that Ba's protest (the most substantial to date) directed at an incident of racist abuse would have been a powerful message that strengthened the argument against racism in the public sphere. Ba's protest to an incident that many won't view as racist at all, others will deem a bit dodgy or inappropriate may well give the impression that football's anti racism message as a whole is over the top, that the problems are more trivial than reality, which is not necessarily helpful to the wider aims. Because of that, I, personally, don't think it was an appropriate reaction.

To be honest, I'm on the fence on it. I haven't seen it, and I wasn't there. And I'm not in position to make a judgement either way. And if Ba feels aggrieved, then I'm absolutely not in a position to criticise regardless of what anyone else might think the wider consequences might be.

[vlahka]

Get called a Japie and a Dutchman etc because of my accent.

Wait, getting called a dutchman is bad? I'm described as a greek fairly often and I dont see any issue with that.

[Zapater]

Wait, getting called a dutchman is bad? I'm described as a greek fairly often and I dont see any issue with that.

Those terms can be semi-derogatory for South Africans of Afrikaans (Dutch) descent, although can also be used as a term of endearment. Basically plays on the stereotype of simple minded, unevolved, unsophisticated farm dwellers. Doesn't really offend me, but makes me laugh because in SA English speakers could make similar comments to that, then we all get painted with the same brush abroad which is a little funny.

[Irishnev]

Those terms can be semi-derogatory for South Africans of Afrikaans (Dutch) descent, although can also be used as a term of endearment. Basically plays on the stereotype of simple minded, unevolved, unsophisticated farm dwellers. Doesn't really offend me, but makes me laugh because in SA English speakers could make similar comments to that, then we all get painted with the same brush abroad which is a little funny.

Having been to ZA many times there are so many colloquialisms - white is either a Boer (Dutch) or English and you know the rest! I spent a year is Aus some time back and I was called a Paddy or even worse a Pom all the time

[Zapater]

Having been to ZA many times there are so many colloquialisms - white is either a Boer (Dutch) or English and you know the rest! I spent a year is Aus some time back and I was called a Paddy or even worse a Pom all the time

Indeed, those aren't offensive unless contextually used like '****ing boere' for example. There are also Portuguese, Greek, Jewish communities among others which also have their own derogatory colloquialisms.

I find that people are very ignorant re Ireland and don't know much about the history. Not that I'm an expert but I've noticed many people in English speaking countries being confused. Dara O Briain did a bit on people in Boston (where everyone and their dog claims to be Irish) constantly referring to him as British. Also some of my friends here who are maybe the definition of Plastic Paddy's. British passports with [great] grandparents born in the London. Just every generation telling the next they're Irish, bang on about being Irish but know **** all about it, then interestingly support the English football team when the world cup rolls by.

[Fosterbloke]

Just go the Australian way and call everyone a cunt.

[Irishnev]

Just go the Australian way and call everyone a cunt.

a flaming cunt

[vlahka]

Up in the northern territory in ausralia our government goes on and on about respecting minority cultures anywhere from aboriginals to the middle east, removing any type of word or whatever that could be considered slightly offensive. Yet they have this thing here called a WOG File. It's a collection of info etc. Anyway, when I was in the government a couple years back I was asked if I could grab the WOG file and email it to some other person. I stared at them for a little since it was the first time I'd heard this thing and repeated wog file. They nodded. I said you know I'm greek right. And they looked nodded but looked confused. So I said WOG again and their eyes widened.

Meanwhile we have a cheese here called Coon cheese, named after the person who created it however many generations ago. Thats getting changed soon because the aboriginals are upset. While I can understand itm it also means you're basically erasing this mans brand and name. I'm actually surprised they havent gone after the Mane Coon cats name and changed that yet. Maybe cats are ok or something. But yeah, WOG file aint getting renamed. My skins too white for that in this country.

[Cormack74]

Anyway, when I was in the government a couple years back.

As PM?

[vlahka]

As PM?

Oh no, I wouldnt bother running cause a few weeks later I'd just be back stabbed and replaced by some absolute joker who cant do ****. Thats the norm for Australia since 2009. We've had like 49 PMs.

[Cormack74]

Oh no, I wouldnt bother running cause a few weeks later I'd just be back stabbed and replaced by some absolute joker who cant do ****. Thats the norm for Australia since 2009. We've had like 49 PMs.

Yeah I'd noticed that over the past decade or so

So what did you do - Foreign Sec', Chancellor of the Exchequer (or whatever you call it), Head of Defence??

[vlahka]

Yeah I'd noticed that over the past decade or so

So what did you do - Foreign Sec', Chancellor of the Exchequer (or whatever you call it), Head of Defence??

Nothing so extravegant! I'm not actually sure what my title was but I was part of HR, but also part of a couple different sections. It was so unique a position that I was doing work 3-4 levels above my pay grade for no extra. A stupid deal if you ask me. Funnily enough once I left, that whole special wing that was created fell apart and was disbanded. I guess a 19 year old girl wasnt good enough as a replacement for me. Idiots.