General Football 23/24

[Harv]

Those are assumptions, but sure.

[danperkins]

Because one has had an involved party come out and say the intimate contact was not consensual and that party has since come under pressure to reverse her stance.


If the second "incident" had an involved party come out and say it was not consensual then that would be discussion worthy. Otherwise it is just being chucked out there as the strawman arguement I suspect it was initially being used as.


Have no idea what the "equality after all" comment was meant to mean. Wrong is wrong, gender does not come into that.


Sorry if that is "mansplaining" (oddly enough never knew one man could "mansplain" to another man but learn something new every day) and making you feel like you also have to leave the site.

I presume the mansplaining comment isn't directed at me as I didn't say it

I mean equality as in, the right of different groups of people to receive the same treatment. Jolene does grab Kirrane's head and pulls it towards her before kissing him, on camera, in front of her husband and his missus. The act is the same, he probably just isn't bothered by it or doesn't want to make a fuss. Does it make it right though? Maybe he is a victim and doesn't know it yet? Imo it is being used as a comparison because of the contrast in media reactions. Also, both were recent, it shows that both were "non consensual kisses", one just lacks the outrage of the other. ITV racing said "Sean Kirrane gets a warm welcome back to the parade ring by Jolene". Would it be different if the owner was a man and the jockey was a woman? I bet it would. I'm not saying that both were right or appropriate and he probably is a sexist pig but if he is not allowed to behave that way, surely by the same standard the same goes for Jolene?

[Alex]

I just find it interesting that nothing has really been said about it. All feels a bit one way traffic to me. Respect is respect after all. Needs to work both ways to be effective. Looking at both sets of footage, neither recipient acts outraged, pulls away or tells the other party to not do that, if thats any indication of being "up for it"

Also, did he not come out after people on social media started frothing at the mouth and say something along the lines of that he got caught up in the moment/celebrations and apologises to anyone that was offended? The doubling down has come from both sides to be honest. People wanting him castrated despite his somewhat weak apology and then him digging in for battle

TBF, I think if he heald his hands up afterwards and said "Sorry guys, should probably not have done that but I was overexcited and it was spontaneous"

Or similar, this would not all be happening. But hes quadrupled down

[danperkins]

I’m with you Dan. All this woke bull**** where you can’t even grab a bird’s head and kiss her on the mouth in front of millions of people at the biggest moment of their life. ****ing liberal bedwetters.

And someone else kissed someone, and despite knowing nothing about that other incident we can conclude that it’s exactly the same because superficial comparisons are really great arguments, and it proves yet again that libs are illogical and hypocritical and that we’re really smart.

Erm... ok.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I presume the mansplaining comment isn't directed at me as I didn't say it

I mean equality as in, the right of different groups of people to receive the same treatment. Jolene does grab Kirrane's head and pulls it towards her before kissing him, on camera, in front of her husband and his missus. The act is the same, he probably just isn't bothered by it or doesn't want to make a fuss. Does it make it right though? Maybe he is a victim and doesn't know it yet? Imo it is being used as a comparison because of the contrast in media reactions. Also, both were recent, it shows that both were "non consensual kisses", one just lacks the outrage of the other. ITV racing said "Sean Kirrane gets a warm welcome back to the parade ring by Jolene". Would it be different if the owner was a man and the jockey was a woman? I bet it would. I'm not saying that both were right or appropriate and he probably is a sexist pig but if he is not allowed to behave that way, surely by the same standard the same goes for Jolene?

Again only if the recipient had an issue with it or if there was not already a relationship/friendship there in advance that made such things acceptable between them.


Also the fact the first incident was confirmed as being non consensual by one of the parties involved is enough, or should be enough, for warning bells to be ringing.

As I said in my earlier post, if he had come out that day or the following day and said he made a big mistake in the heat of the moment and that he accepts what he did was inappropriate then there most likely would have been
far less about it all.

A normal person would, imo, be mortified if they kissed someone in the heat of an event and then found out it upset the other person or made them feel uncomfortable. That normal person would be bending over backwards to try and say sorry asap.

Takes a different sort of individual to be told that the intimate act they forced onto someone else was not considered consensual and then continue to double down with claims about the victim of the act.

[Harv]

TBF, I think if he heald his hands up afterwards and said "Sorry guys, should probably not have done that but I was overexcited and it was spontaneous"

Or similar, this would not all be happening. But hes quadrupled down

Did he not literally do that the next day though?

"I have to apologise, learn from this, and understand that when you are president you have to be more careful."

Which seems to have been totally ignored by the white knights and women the world over? Obviously an apology was not what was wanted. They wanted him removed from his position and made an example of. So you've got someone that acknowledges they made a mistake and got carried away and apologises, thats then been backed into a corner to fight for his life. A fiery Spaniard at that. It's only going one way.

[Harv]

Again only if the recipient had an issue with it or if there was not already a relationship/friendship there in advance that made such things acceptable between them.


Also the fact the first incident was confirmed as being non consensual by one of the parties involved is enough, or should be enough, for warning bells to be ringing.

As I said in my earlier post, if he had come out that day or the following day and said he made a big mistake in the heat of the moment and that he accepts what he did was inappropriate then there most likely would have been
far less about it all.

A normal person would, imo, be mortified if they kissed someone in the heat of an event and then found out it upset the other person or made them feel uncomfortable. That normal person would be bending over backwards to try and say sorry asap.

Takes a different sort of individual to be told that the intimate act they forced onto someone else was not considered consensual and then continue to double down with claims about the victim of the act.

He did.

[ChesterDave]

He did.

He claimed it was consensual, she was lying and malicious false feminism was out to get him. It doesn't ****ing well sound much like I made a mistake to me!

[Alex]

Did he not literally do that the next day though?

"I have to apologise, learn from this, and understand that when you are president you have to be more careful."

Which seems to have been totally ignored by the white knights and women the world over? Obviously an apology was not what was wanted. They wanted him removed from his position and made an example of. So you've got someone that acknowledges they made a mistake and got carried away and apologises, thats then been backed into a corner to fight for his life. A fiery Spaniard at that. It's only going one way.

Ive no idea if that was enough, doesnt seem like it was because the whole of the Spanish Womens team have quit (excluding the coach) and some of the men's players have too. Doesn't seem like a reaction to someone saying sorry in any meaningful way. I get the desire to have balance in this conversation, but it really dont seem like the situation is resolved to anyone's satisfaction bar Rubiales.

It seems like he said sorry then the Spanish PM said it wasnt good enough and then its exploded from there.

Its possible that Hermoso thought she should just wave it off because she didnt think anyone would bother to support her, then was emboldened by Pedro Sanchez to be able to be confident and say more. Thats my reading of it now after reading what I can (hard without speaking spanish )

"Hey, I didn't like it," Hermoso said later during an Instagram live from the dressing room, appearing to respond to questions about the incident.

Her teammates reacted with disgust when they saw video of the kiss. "But what do I do?" she adds, appearing to speak to a teammate out of the camera.

Thats what she said initially.

[Alex]

Hermoso also downplayed the kiss later on Sunday on the radio program 'El Tiempo de Juego' on Cadena COPE, saying "it was because of the emotion of the moment, there's nothing more there."

Despite what Hermoso and Rubiales said in their respective interviews about the matter, raw footage from Salma Paralluelo's Instagram says that the kiss was not Rubiales' only questionable moment of the night.

When he arrived in the dressing room during the celebrations, he offered to pay for the team to take a trip to Ibiza, and joked that he would marry Hermoso.

I suppose my question would be, has he offered to marry Alvaro Morata or something?

[Doc_Piptorious]

He claimed it was consensual, she was lying and malicious false feminism was out to get him. It doesn't ****ing well sound much like I made a mistake to me!

Yep, not to mention she was also threatened with legal action if she continued to say it was not consensual.

Some apology


Guess no, be it before an action or after it, means a lot to some people and nothing at all to others.

[danperkins]

Again only if the recipient had an issue with it or if there was not already a relationship/friendship there in advance that made such things acceptable between them.


Also the fact the first incident was confirmed as being non consensual by one of the parties involved is enough, or should be enough, for warning bells to be ringing.

As I said in my earlier post, if he had come out that day or the following day and said he made a big mistake in the heat of the moment and that he accepts what he did was inappropriate then there most likely would have been
far less about it all.

A normal person would, imo, be mortified if they kissed someone in the heat of an event and then found out it upset the other person or made them feel uncomfortable. That normal person would be bending over backwards to try and say sorry asap.

Takes a different sort of individual to be told that the intimate act they forced onto someone else was not considered consensual and then continue to double down with claims about the victim of the act.

I'm not defending either incident btw just recognise that the act is exactly the same, it's the reaction that differs. If grabby had no right to wear the face of Hermoso, then Jolene had no right to do the same to the jockey. Just because he has been silent on it and there has no zero pressure for him to respond, doesn't make it right.

Kirrane hasn't said a word and he probably won't. Maybe he doesn't care, maybe he hasn't said anything about it as he's a young jockey and she's an owner or maybe there isn't any pressure or focus on him to comment on it or make a statement because nobody really cares. Normally I wouldn't care whatsoever but I found the comparison interesting. I put both incidents down to an excitable inappropriate mistake and usually an apology would suffice but it seems they want Rubiales bollox which is kinda ironic .... as he likes to grab them so much

Anyways I don't really care, I just wanted to be apart of the outrage. Would be nice if some randomer grabbed me for a mooch but that hasn't happened in a longgggg time

[Harv]

He claimed it was consensual, she was lying and malicious false feminism was out to get him. It doesn't ****ing well sound much like I made a mistake to me!

hmm

"I have to apologise, learn from this, and understand that when you are president you have to be more careful."

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm not defending either incident btw just recognise that the act is exactly the same, it's the reaction that differs. If grabby had no right to wear the face of Hermoso, then Jolene had no right to do the same to the jockey. Just because he has been silent on it and there has no zero pressure for him to respond, doesn't make it right.

Kirrane hasn't said a word and he probably won't. Maybe he doesn't care, maybe he hasn't said anything about it as he's a young jockey and she's an owner or maybe there isn't any pressure or focus on him to comment on it or make a statement because nobody really cares. Normally I wouldn't care whatsoever but I found the comparison interesting. I put both incidents down to an excitable inappropriate mistake and usually an apology would suffice but it seems they want Rubiales bollox which is kinda ironic .... as he likes to grab them so much

Anyways I don't really care, I just wanted to be apart of the outrage. Would be nice if some randomer grabbed me for a mooch but that hasn't happened in a longgggg time

I'll meet you on O'Connell street by the spike later in the week.

[Harv]

Yep, not to mention she was also threatened with legal action if she continued to say it was not consensual.

Some apology


Guess no, be it before an action or after it, means a lot to some people and nothing at all to others.