General Football 23/24

[danperkins]

Not disputing the opportunity to point score - bit in terms of the actual issue I agree with the points Kenneth had made. Cutting through the middle here, there’s definitely an issue, right? The initial kiss cannot be swept under the carpet. The splitting into two tribes is ****ing inevitable these days, but seemingly just distracts from the actual issue.

It’s safe territory to argue the opposing POV on a male dominated forum - good luck taking it forwards in real life.

With respect you and Kenneth agreeing is not exactly news & that is fine you guys share many of the same views, there's nothing wrong with that. Nobody has denied the kiss wasn't inappropriate, that he seems like a bit of a dick or that the act of a non consensual kiss on a public stage like that is wrong.

The back and forth seems that Harv is involved in seems to be because some posters initially said the likes of, "ah if he only came out and apologised" which imo are very fair comments. Harv pointed out that he actually did make an initial statement of apology. Regardless if you didn't think it was good enough or if it was disingenuous, he did apologise. Also, Harv said Hermoso did do a massive u turn on her initial comments, which is also true. Why she did that is certainly if for debate. From what I gather he certainly was not defending the actions just responding to certain posters.

There is a genuinely compulsive need for certain people to run defence & be absolutely outraged on other peoples behalf. Also, I don't know about you but I have more conversations in life than just on EST and shockingly enough & with girls too & my 'real life' is going just fine thanks. Nobody has explained away any actions here, just merely pointing out some facts. He did say sorry, she did dramatically change her stance & that his head does prematurely joins his ears. If that apology wasn't good enough for some people, that is fine & for whatever reason Hermoso went the other way after her initial comments, that is also fine. He shouldn't have done, whatever happens it is of his own doing.

[Cerbie]

With respect you and Kenneth agreeing is not exactly news & that's is fine you guys share many of the same views there's nothing wrong with that. Nobody has denied the kiss wasn't inappropriate, that he seems like a bit of a dick or that the act of a non consensual kiss is wrong.

The back and forth seems that Harv is involved in seems to be because some posters initially said the likes of, "ah if he only came out and apologised" which imo are very fair comments. Harv pointed out that he actually did make an initial statement of apology. Regardless if you didn't think it was good enough or if it was disingenuous, he did apologise. Also, Harv said Hermoso did do a massive u turn on her initial comments, which is also true. Why she did that is certainly if for debate. From what I gather he certainly was not defending the actions just responding to certain posters.

There is a genuinely compulsive need for certain people to run defence & be absolutely outraged on other peoples behalf. Also, I don't know about you but I have more conversations in life than just on EST and shockingly enough & with girls too & my 'real life' is going just fine thanks. Nobody has explained away any actions here, just merely pointing out some facts. He did say sorry, she did dramatically change her stance & that his head does prematurely joins his ears. If that apology wasn't good enough for some people, that is fine & for whatever reason Hermoso went the other way after her initial comments, that is also fine.

And there is plenty of stuff I don’t agree with Dan and Harv on - **** they very rarely agree with each other!

Kenneth that is the second time this week you have played the Incel card - that’s a yellow for me as it’s unnecessary and untrue. Just no need.

My girls are 18 and 21, I have asked them and the wife what they think about the whole **** show. From that small sample size, they all agree it was wrong and inappropriate. The handling of the fall out is a case study for a PR disaster course & has taken the shine off what should be a national celebration. Would they consider it sexual assault - no…. And at least one of them has experienced that in the past.

[Buzzo]

With respect you and Kenneth agreeing is not exactly news & that is fine you guys share many of the same views, there's nothing wrong with that. Nobody has denied the kiss wasn't inappropriate, that he seems like a bit of a dick or that the act of a non consensual kiss on a public stage like that is wrong.

The back and forth seems that Harv is involved in seems to be because some posters initially said the likes of, "ah if he only came out and apologised" which imo are very fair comments. Harv pointed out that he actually did make an initial statement of apology. Regardless if you didn't think it was good enough or if it was disingenuous, he did apologise. Also, Harv said Hermoso did do a massive u turn on her initial comments, which is also true. Why she did that is certainly if for debate. From what I gather he certainly was not defending the actions just responding to certain posters.

There is a genuinely compulsive need for certain people to run defence & be absolutely outraged on other peoples behalf. Also, I don't know about you but I have more conversations in life than just on EST and shockingly enough & with girls too & my 'real life' is going just fine thanks. Nobody has explained away any actions here, just merely pointing out some facts. He did say sorry, she did dramatically change her stance & that his head does prematurely joins his ears. If that apology wasn't good enough for some people, that is fine & for whatever reason Hermoso went the other way after her initial comments, that is also fine. He shouldn't have done, whatever happens it is of his own doing.

I was speaking more generally about the challenges of mansplaining sexual exploitation to women - that wasn’t aimed at you.

That was my attempt to get back on topic!

There’s an issue at the core of what’s happening here, it may be cultural also but the reaction has been incendiary which suggests something deep rooted. It looks like it will become Spains Metoo and whether that is right or wrong I don’t really suppose it’s up to us.

From the outside it is pretty fascinating to watch it unfold and unravel.

[danperkins]

And there is plenty of stuff I don’t agree with Dan and Harv on - **** they very rarely agree with each other!

Kenneth that is the second time this week you have played the Incel card - that’s a yellow for me as it’s unnecessary and untrue. Just no need.

My girls are 18 and 21, I have asked them and the wife what they think about the whole **** show. From that small sample size, they all agree it was wrong and inappropriate. The handling of the fall out is a case study for a PR disaster course & has taken the shine off what should be a national celebration. Would they consider it sexual assault - no…. And at least one of them has experienced that in the past.

just because you don't agree with somebody on another topic or thread, shouldn't mean that you should discount or ignore their opinion on another. Bringing opinions across threads is never a good thing, no matter what the back and forth (unless it's really nasty) it's something I try not to do. We're all adults here working off a poster handle which sometimes can stick in the mind. It's ok to disagree on certain things and not hold a grudge, people are allowed to have different view points.

Everyone is talking about it. I've talked to my wife about it, her sister, my mother, her mother, female friends & even women in work, as I'm curious to hear from a female perspective. Literally not one female has said it was 'sexual assault'. Highly inappropriate absolutely and a dick thing to do but nothing sexual about it. He's clearly a tool and he has brought it on himself. IMO the whole situation has been heightened as it was a momentous occasion for the Spanish women's football team. I think the outrage/reaction that many have had, has been elevated because it was sullied by a bloke on an occasion when it should have just been all about women & women's sport.

[danperkins]

I was speaking more generally about the challenges of mansplaining sexual exploitation to women - that wasn’t aimed at you.

That was my attempt to get back on topic!

There’s an issue at the core of what’s happening here, it may be cultural also but the reaction has been incendiary which suggests something deep rooted. It looks like it will become Spains Metoo and whether that is right or wrong I don’t really suppose it’s up to us.

From the outside it is pretty fascinating to watch it unfold and unravel.

Apologies, I didn't get that you were speaking in generalities & did not mean to come across as rude

From an outside perspective it's just such a bizarre situation.

[Charly]

Mansplaining... I hate that word.

[danperkins]

Mansplaining... I hate that word.

[Kenneth]

Kenneth that is the second time this week you have played the Incel card - that’s a yellow for me as it’s unnecessary and untrue. Just no need.

Surely it was clear that that one was a joke.

[ChesterDave]

White Knight is nearly as tedious an insult as woke.

[Rigadon]

England manager Gareth Southgate has included Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire in his squad for September's games against Ukraine and Scotland.

Midfielder Henderson, 33, has been picked after leaving Liverpool to join Saudi Arabian side Al-Ettifaq in July.

Centre-back Maguire makes the squad despite not having played for Manchester United so far this season.

England play Ukraine in a Euro 2024 qualifier on 9 September in Poland, and Scotland in a friendly on 12 September.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66668089

Aren't there better players? Or better to give younger players an opportunity?

[Cerbie]

White Knight is nearly as tedious an insult as woke.

White Knight could equally be levelled at all the white European males rushing to defend the Spanish World Cup winning team.

Incel has some nasty insinuations, so probably best to avoid using it even in a jokey way.

[Doc_Piptorious]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66668089

Aren't there better players? Or better to give younger players an opportunity?

Maguire making the squad is baffling.

He is not good enough to make the ROI squad, let alone the squad of a country that has a lot of good players to chose between.

[Kenneth]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66668089

Aren't there better players? Or better to give younger players an opportunity?

Yes, Southgate is an idiot.

[Cerbie]

Yes, Southgate is an idiot.

Will be interesting to see if he gets any minutes on the pitch.

I’ll be watching England V Scotland in Spain with my Scottish family and the girls Scottish boyfriends. Whoever loses picks up the tab - as I’ll be getting all the other bills for the fortnight, it would be nice for us not to gift them an opportunity by playing Harry and give my wallet a night off!

[Fosterbloke]

Everyone is talking about it. I've talked to my wife about it, her sister, my mother, her mother, female friends & even women in work, as I'm curious to hear from a female perspective. Literally not one female has said it was 'sexual assault'.

Their opinions are irrelevant - it's the victim's that counts.

If she felt threatened or coerced to perform an intimate act, that's sexual assault and it's well defined in many legal systems.