VAR thread

[Scratch]

Delicate egos need to toughen up. There is no shame in someone who has had a chance to view replays, from all angles and all speeds, telling you that when viewing it in real time, you might have missed a detail.

Rugby can do it, cricket does it. Are football refs really that precious about it?

When it comes to awarding a red card or even a penalty, maybe the ref should take a look at the replay, unprompted, to ensure he got it right, and without outside influence from the VAR team.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Delicate egos need to toughen up. There is no shame in someone who has had a chance to view replays, from all angles and all speeds, telling you that when viewing it in real time, you might have missed a detail.

Rugby can do it, cricket does it. Are football refs really that precious about it?

When it comes to awarding a red card or even a penalty, maybe the ref should take a look at the replay, unprompted, to ensure he got it right, and without outside influence from the VAR team.

Is not even all football refs as you look at other leagues that use VAR and while there are still errors from time to time they do not happen with the sort of regularity as in England.


The tech is fine, the tech is excellent in fact, it is the users that are the problem....time after time after time.

[Norbs]

Delicate egos need to toughen up. There is no shame in someone who has had a chance to view replays, from all angles and all speeds, telling you that when viewing it in real time, you might have missed a detail.

Rugby can do it, cricket does it. Are football refs really that precious about it?

When it comes to awarding a red card or even a penalty, maybe the ref should take a look at the replay, unprompted, to ensure he got it right, and without outside influence from the VAR team.

In a word, yes, I think they are. Refs in this country seem to behave like a closed club, it's an irritating English trait to close in and protect. I don't know enough about other societies to comment if it's unique to the English but looking at the Roman Catholic church in Ireland might suggest that they may have the ability to be like it too, when we're talking about institutions and positions of power

[Exiled_red]

I said something similar recently. VAR was introduced to help referees right decisions that had been wrong. Then they realised that their delicate egos would be affected by the process of being corrected

https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/sho...67&postcount=6

The whole point of VAR should be to get decisions right, the current system does little to improve the game towards that aim.

[Mr Pink]

With VAR I think it was Stephen Warnock that said it should be is the decision right or not, forget about the "clear and obvious" rubbish which for me is intend to protect the refs rather than get the decisions right.

agree 100% that the clear and obvious is only there to protect referees. They can argue that a decision is subjective so you don’t want to overrule unless it’s clear and obvious… but the flaw with this argument is that it’s every bit as subjective whether a mistake was a clear and obvious one.

Look at the red card for example- most people agreed that it was the wrong decision but it’s difficult for pundits, fans and (most importantly) managers to say definitively that it was clear and obvious. We all know what should be a red card, or a penalty, but it’s harder for us to dispute whether the refs mistake was clear and obvious, giving var a pass.

On the flip side, if var had overruled it, no one in the bournemouth camp would say “yaaa that was the correct decision, but the mistake wasnt clear and obvious, so they shouldn’t have intervened”.

[Norbs]

The whole point of VAR should be to get decisions right, the current system does little to improve the game towards that aim.

Yep, if anything it highlights the error, cements it in place and the referee is shown to be fallible. Surely this isn't how the referees want it to work? If it is then the game at the top in this country is open to massive corruption

[Kenneth]

agree 100% that the clear and obvious is only there to protect referees. They can argue that a decision is subjective so you don’t want to overrule unless it’s clear and obvious… but the flaw with this argument is that it’s every bit as subjective whether a mistake was a clear and obvious one.

Look at the red card for example- most people agreed that it was the wrong decision but it’s difficult for pundits, fans and (most importantly) managers to say definitively that it was clear and obvious. We all know what should be a red card, or a penalty, but it’s harder for us to dispute whether the refs mistake was clear and obvious, giving var a pass.

On the flip side, if var had overruled it, no one in the bournemouth camp would say “yaaa that was the correct decision, but the mistake wasnt clear and obvious, so they shouldn’t have intervened”.

[danperkins]

I said something similar recently. VAR was introduced to help referees right decisions that had been wrong. Then they realised that their delicate egos would be affected by the process of being corrected

https://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/sho...67&postcount=6

this spot on. Highlighting just how poor many of the refs are is not in the interest of the refs themselves or PGMOL

[marcus50bucks]

Mike Dean: Anthony Taylor is a mate – I couldn’t send him to do a VAR review
Former video assistant referee admits to making the 'pathetic' call at the climax of Chelsea's 2-2 draw with Tottenham last August

By Chris Bascombe
24 August 2023 • 5:37pm

Former Premier League referee Mike Dean failed to intervene on a major VAR call because he didn’t want to cause his friend Anthony Taylor any ‘grief’, he has revealed.

In a remarkably candid admission, Dean said he made the “pathetic” call at the climax of the 2-2 draw between Tottenham and Chelsea last August.

Cristian Romero pulled Marc Cucurella’s hair seconds before Harry Kane’s 96th minute equaliser, and Dean acknowledged that in the heat of the moment he made a bad choice not to suggest on-field official Taylor consider a sending off offence.

“I missed the stupid hair pull at Chelsea versus Tottenham which was pathetic from my point of view,” Dean told Up Front with Simon Jordan.

“It’s one of them where if I had my time again, what would I do? I’d send Anthony [Taylor] to the screen. I think I knew if I did send him to the screen … he’s cautioned both managers, he’s had a hell of a game, it’s been such a tough game end to end.

“I said to Anthony afterwards: ‘I just didn’t want to send you to the screen after what has gone on in the game’. I didn’t want to send him up because he is a mate as well as a referee and I think I didn’t want to send him up because I didn’t want any more grief than he already had.

“Anthony, he is big and bald and ugly enough to know if he is going to the screen he is going to the screen for a reason. If someone pulls their hair now it’s dead easy. It’s just a brainwave by me, a really bad call by me, and it kind of affected me as VAR going forward.”

Dean’s remarks underline the human frailties which have often undermined the new technology. He was subsequently stood down from the next Premier League games and later decided he did not wish to continue as a video assistant referee.

“Probably I missed a few games because you get taken out of the limelight,” he added.

“That was a major error. If they don’t score from the corner it is not as big an issue. But I knew full well then I would be stood down the week after. I asked to take a bit of time off because it wasn’t for me.

“I used to get in the car on a Friday and was dreading Saturday. I was thinking, ‘I hope nothing happens’. I used to be petrified sitting in the chair.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/24/mike-dean-anthony-taylor-video-assistant-referee-tottenham/

Absolute disgrace but is anyone surprised

[SB]

Not surprised it happened just that he’s confessed to it.

[danperkins]

Yeah load of bollocks but not surprised. Ah he's a pal, I don't wanna give him grief. That could be the difference between a team winning and losing the league. Hundreds of millions at stake but sure he's a mate so..

[rudedog]

Fair play for his honesty - cant be easy to admit you are not fit for purpose.

[peterbread]

Surely openly admitting to deliberately not following the rules could and should lead to some serious repercussions. But what are the chances of that actually happening. There is no way it’s the only time this has happened. Can they be forced to release audio of some of the more controversial decisions if it’s available?

Imagine if this was an incident in one of the seasons we missed out by a point and he’d said it about one of our games. What would or could Liverpool do about it?

Then how about these guys manipulating it for other reasons like betting. We don’t know what’s actually being said or what they are talking about away from it. Don’t worry mate I got you covered no matter what.

[baitman]

Signing his own resignation, gross misconduct, and a cunt.

[Cerbie]

Surely openly admitting to deliberately not following the rules could and should lead to some serious repercussions. But what are the chances of that actually happening. There is no way it’s the only time this has happened. Can they be forced to release audio of some of the more controversial decisions if it’s available?

Imagine if this was an incident in one of the seasons we missed out by a point and he’d said it about one of our games. What would or could Liverpool do about it?

Then how about these guys manipulating it for other reasons like betting. We don’t know what’s actually being said or what they are talking about away from it. Don’t worry mate I got you covered no matter what.

He has definitely opened a can of worms here. It is an opportunity to push for more transparency in VAR and for him to fall on his sword and resign. Mic them up asap and make sure at the very least all discussion are recorded going forward so incorrect decisions can be investigated properly.

They need to change the principle behind VAR to making the right decision- this proves refs are fallible and biased whether in the VAR suite or on the pitch. PL should be pushing for this now too, Dean’s admission taints their product’s reputation.