Once again we see Mr Gerrard..

[Slim]

I do get amazed at some of the criticism levelled at him on internet forums and I wonder if much of it is more to do with the Chelsea debacle x 2 than his performances.

Steven Gerrard is, in my opinion, only second in my lifetime to King Kenny. What he has done for our club is unbelievable and we are lucky that he chose (and was chosen) to come to our club when he was 8. In 17 years he has considered to leave twice. I have to confess I consider leaving ,my job more than once every 8 and a half years on average so I can forgive that. On the pitch we would not have progressed in the last couple of years in the way that we have without him. Liverpool Football Club is once again a name that big players will consider coming to. That of course is due to 2 things, potential of success and cash. SG has been a big factor in us gaining success. He cannot possibly win league titles on his own and we need to forgive him for not playing like Superman every game.

The fact is we ar a far stronger club with him than without him and he is what I would look for in a captain. He is passionate, has tremendous ability, and he cares.

Good post mate.

[Marky]

I'm sure spionkop's big enough to look after himself but if I may post on his behalf...

I was making reference to his fighting qualties yesterday or should i say lack of them, not his ability as a player, that is unquestionable.
Gerrard's a truly world class player and we're lukcy to have a player like him however just because he's saved us in big, big games in the past when all looked lost doesn't mean he should be immune from a bit of criticism when he's not firing on all cylinders, a dip in form is fine but i can't remember the last time he played well against either Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal?
That is not good enough in my opinion.

[Neil Young]

I was making reference to his fighting qualties yesterday or should i say lack of them, not his ability as a player, that is unquestionable.
Gerrard's a truly world class player and we're lukcy to have a player like him however just because he's saved us in big, big games in the past when all looked lost doesn't mean he should be immune from a bit of criticism when he's not firing on all cylinders, a dip in form is fine but i can't remember the last time he played well against either Chelsea, Man U or Arsenal?
That is not good enough in my opinion.

It's a fine distinction and some might say you're hiding behind semantics. Fighting qualities are one of the strengths of world class players I'd have thought.

Nowhere have I said (or anyone else as far as I can see) that Gerrard is immune from criticism. Your initial post was badly thought out. Maybe if you read all the responses to the thread and cared to work out why some people have responded so vitriolically...

[tomasjj]

Phew... I am glad we all managed to get the thread back on track with some contructuve debate instead of insults.

[dww]

Old Traffod this season, did he do anything of note? - Did anyone?
Emirates Stadium, did he do anything of note? - Did anyone?
Goodison Park, did he do anything of note? - Did anyone?
Anfield today, did he do anything of note? - Did anyone?

I think that Marky is being selective in the evidence that he puts forward (failure to include several cup finals beingthe most glaring omission) but there is definitely a case that in games like the ones mentioned it is part of the captains role to lead from the front in games like those mentioned. Obviously the better the opposition the harder it is to influence agame but Gerrard currently lacks the air of great captains like Emlyn Hughes or Roy Keane that means that he raises his game consistantly in the games against the best and facilitates others to do the same.

It is a bit of a cop out to say noone did anything because Gerrard is our best player and ought to be the one showing something when others don't. I think that in general Gerrard has been exceptonal for us and think that the problem is more one of wether he is the man to be captain on the big days - can he organise the team, drive others on even if he isn't playing well. It is a pretty intangible thing but I think that we need to change soome aspect of our organisation to mean that we can compete with and beat the other top four teams in the PL on a consistant basis.

[Neil Young]

Phew... I am glad we all managed to get the thread back on track with some contructuve debate instead of insults.

Are you being sarcastic, tomas?

[tomasjj]

Are you being sarcastic, tomas?

no.

[Neil Young]

OK.

[redblood]

Can't believe I'm going to say this, but Marky is intitled to his own opinion, and he does have a point. Gerrard DOES go missing at times, maybe the standards he has set in other games make us expect more than we should realistically expect from the guy at times.

He is having an average season so far this year, and before anyone chirps up with "so are lots of players", Stevie is widely touted by many as our only world class player, and our star player, so I think it is fair to expect your best player to be the best player on the pitch for you most of the time.


I think that this season, Stevie has been nowhere near as good as some say he has been, but nowhere near as bad as others would like to make out he has been.

A reasoned and intelligent response, by Stevie's own admissiion he has been below par this season, he has said it several times this season and only last week against Bolton he admitted he was quiet in the 2nd half, yes he scored an important goal in that game but didn't do a lot else - his words not mine.

He wasn't anywhere near as good as he could be today that we have to accept, we need him to be the driving force the difference but as I've said else where he doesn't have the guile to unlock a defensive display like that, that's where we need an Aimar, Jari etc.
Xabi had a good game yesterday, so did Pennant, Kuyt also played well.

[Morph]

go missing in big games.
Come on people lets not deny it, he does disappear in SOME big games, it was there for all to see the dsy, at least Xabi put the boot in and looked like he really wanted it, Gerrard was outfought and outplayed by Gilberto(class act btw) and a French youngster, leaves alot to be desired.
Not the first time and something tells me not the last
Simply not good enough for a Captain of Liverpool in my opinion.

Now without any kind of obscenities or insults, I'm going to try and suggest why some people appear to have not taken this comment too well.

go missing in big games. Come on people lets not deny it, he does disappear in SOME big games, it was there for all to see today

Okay I don't think any player can say they turn up for every big game, it's unfortunate but that's the way it is. Ask the manc fans about rooney, the Arse fans themselves about Henry, the Barca fans about Ronnie. The point is you can't honestly expect a player to perform in every big game, unfortunately it's just possible.

Now if you had looked at both sides of the coin, you would remember that he pulled us out of the mire in the Olympiacos, AC Milan, West Ham games to name a few. And lets not be in any doubt here they were very big games, arguably bigger than a first round clash v Arsenal.

at least Xabi put the boot in and looked like he really wanted it, Gerrard was outfought and outplayed by Gilberto(class act btw) and a French youngster, leaves alot to be desired.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Alonso wanted it any more than Gerrard, in fact generally speaking, it's Alonso who backs out of the tackle more so than Gerrard. Now Gerrard might have been 'outfought and outplayed' by Gilberto and Flamini, but that's as much down to the tactics that Rafa has Stevie playing (and for good reason) than it is Stevies attitude and commitment. Unfortunately Stevie can't carry the team the whole time, and he was limited in what he could do as the whole attacking impetus of the team wasn't up to much.

Not the first time and something tells me not the last. Simply not good enough for a Captain of Liverpool in my opinion.

No it wasn't the first and won't be the last, but show me a player that this line doesn't apply to. Now whether he should be captain or not is a different matter, personally I think it should be Carra, but as I say thats a different matter, the sheer fact that you're basing this on the back of yesterdays performance is whats probably rubbed a few up the wrong way.

Stevie was by no means the worst player on the pitch, and I think a lot are spoiled by his high standards to the point where if he has an off game, then the lynch mob come running.

------------

All I'd say is, your timing and wording of your point didn't help, if you'd put up a balanced reasoned debate on the point you might have received a much more favorable response. Instead you put up a blunt unbalanced point which wasn't backed up with any evidence.

People have been going on about the quality of posts on this forum recently and generally I think with just cause. Maybe it just needs a bit of education as how to put ones ideas across in future. And I don't mean to talk down to you or anything like that, just offering some advice as how to solicit a better reply from your points in future.

[alunevans]

A reasoned and intelligent response, by Stevie's own admissiion he has been below par this season, he has said it several times this season and only last week against Bolton he admitted he was quiet in the 2nd half, yes he scored an important goal in that game but didn't do a lot else - his words not mine.

He wasn't anywhere near as good as he could be today that we have to accept, we need him to be the driving force the difference but as I've said else where he doesn't have the guile to unlock a defensive display like that, that's where we need an Aimar, Jari etc.
Xabi had a good game yesterday, so did Pennant, Kuyt also played well.

Thing is, how can he be the driving force when he is utilised in such a way that he is played predominantly deep and told to focus on his tactical discipline.

In my view, since all this tactical discipline malarky happened we've lost far more than we've gained.

If we want Stevie to be his old marauding self then let's just let him get on with it. I think he's a very special player being under utilised and overly managed.

I kept on looking at the game yesterday and thinking thats where I'd expect Gerrard to be, but he wasn't, he was nicely disciplined much much deeper ie in a nice safe place where he could do no damage to the opposition.

[Neil Young]

Maybe he is, as they say, on a learning curve and will be able to be both disciplined and marauding at some point. Obviously, the sooner the better.

[Kopite_Colin]

i still hold the view that Gerrard is badly deployed by Benitez. He and Alonso were so deep it was silly. All this tactical discipline we hear of being apparently essential is nullifying him. I'd rather we just have the marauding Steven Gerrard that blew teams away, than this tame "tactically disciplined" version.

Free the Huyton One!!

I'm so glad someone else has seen this. What's the point sitting back so as not to get caught on the break and then get stuffed cos ....er....we got caught on the break....but didn't get enough bodies into the box to cause them a problem first. I really don't understand it.

[Assassin]

go missing in big games.
Come on people lets not deny it, he does disappear in SOME big games, it was there for all to see the dsy, at least Xabi put the boot in and looked like he really wanted it, Gerrard was outfought and outplayed by Gilberto(class act btw) and a French youngster, leaves alot to be desired.
Not the first time and something tells me not the last
Simply not good enough for a Captain of Liverpool in my opinion.

Bellend :whatever:Every time we lose you criticise Gerrard






**** off and "Support" some other team.

[Ketario]

Are you being sarcastic, tomas?

(He just PM'd me to say he WAS being sarcastic - get him Neil!)