OK... so heres the question!

[Redspin]

You lot are all obviously quite pissed of right now about that result. Fair enough, but its not the end of our season

But reading another forum (6CM) it appears that quite a number of people there would like Rafa to leave. Ryan has started a post about how "The rafalution is complete bollocks....and the only reason we have won those trophies is because of Gerrard" he's correct, but every team that wins a trophy has a great player that standsout above the rest....Ronaldinho, Terry, Henry etc etc would thos clubs be as successful without those players? I think not.

What are the general feelings here?

IMO he is the right man for the job, its just takes time, and Liverpool fans are getting impatiant waiting for #19. He has made a few mistakes...everybody does, but we have also won some amazing games with him, and he isn't as stubborn as everyone thinks...certainly not Houllier proportions....he has fixed many problems that we had from Houlliers reign and its going to take time to all come together.

i believe he will get us there

I read the same thread on that forum. I'd take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. Man U lurkers are on there mixing it, one bloke in particular. You can't blame them, but the more feeble-minded fans fall for it.

[Redspin]

He seems to score every time he gets to play.....hmm......definately not good enough for our striker standards nowadays.

In a poor overall performance Fowler was absolutely awful, just dreadful. He looked like a middle-aged bloke puffing and panting in a kickabout in the park with teenagers. It would be impossible to look less fit or more knackered than he looked. He's finished and won't be around next season - thank God

[alunevans]

Too soon to say he should go but I don't think he's the messianic genius that everyone thinks he is. I think a lot of the time he's simply too clever by half, and I can't believe so many people were taken in by the blatant pro Benitez propaganda of the Balague book.

For me the very first step he has to take is to get the team playing the right way. Arsenal's kids can do it and yet we're meant to believe that our first team don't have the quality to.

Haven't people noticed that when Rafa tries to be a smart arse it tends to backfire on him.

I think he is thought of as a genius because of the European Cup, which I'll be forever grateful for. But it's kind of made him into a sacred cow with many. I wonder how those people would feel if Dudek hadn't made that wonder save, or if Alonso's pen that was saved didn't come straight back out to him and we ended up getting beat?

For me, I have many many doubts about Rafa. But not enough doubts to give him his marching orders. I won't be convinced that he's the man to lead us to the promised land until I see his team playing the game the right way.

No matter how badly Arsenal are doing at the moment I'd back them to win more Leagues than us in the next 5 years.

I think the time has come for us to have a manager who will start off getting us to play football in the knowledge that all else can then follow. It'd be easier if that was Rafa, but I'd be happy enough too for it to be someone else.

For me its not the personnel that's key, it's the way we're playing that's screwed up. The way we play the game we will be condemned to forever be a cup team. Rafa has to make that step and he's had long enough to have us playing pass and move football.

Don't tell me our first team are incapable of that if Arsenal's kids are.

[Shaggy]

In a poor overall performance Fowler was absolutely awful, just dreadful. He looked like a middle-aged bloke puffing and panting in a kickabout in the park with teenagers. It would be impossible to look less fit or more knackered than he looked. He's finished and won't be around next season - thank God

Sad but true.

[FatTony]

I think that's the point I'm trying to make

[nebbers]

Goals
Liverpool 1+1=2
Arsenal 3+6=9

Well for a start, we scored 3 last night. If the stats can't even get the number of goals right, how can we believe the rest?

[Lecter]

The question should be if Stevie is the right man to be our Captain?

A good Captain should get the team up in difficult situations and you don't see Stevie do that enough IMO.

You mean like upping your own performance and dragging your team back from 3 down to win the Champions League

Or upping your performance when 2-0 down in an FA Cup final and again winning the competition

Gerrards not a great talker BUT he has others around him who can and will take that responsibility (Carragher & Alonso)

Gerrard leads by example

[Tee]

You mean like upping your own performance and dragging your team back from 3 down to win the Champions League

Or upping your performance when 2-0 down in an FA Cup final and again winning the competition

Gerrards not a great talker BUT he has others around him who can and will take that responsibility (Carragher & Alonso)

Gerrard leads by example

Spot on there.

However, he does seem to lack his usual drive for some reason.

We need a strong Steven Gerrard - both physically and mentally, if we are to rescue our season.

The one underachiever (who seems to have survived any real criticism) is Xabi. He really needs to get back to his standard - right now he does look out of form IMO.

We will turn this round. We should applause Arsene Wenger for realising his efforts - his team was a real credit to his footballing principles. We lost to a club who are about 5 years ahead of us, both on and off the pitch, but we will get there.

[Muttly]

Well for a start, we scored 3 last night. If the stats can't even get the number of goals right, how can we believe the rest?

Sorry my mistake. It should read

Goals
Liverpool 1+3=4
Arsenal 3+6=9

It does make better reading .

[Maestro]

Sacking Rafa is a pile of bollocks.

People are far far to fickle and need to learn that success comes with time.

Rafa has been here 2 and half years and he has already won more than 99% of managers could ever dream of.

Now I know people will say about how it took Fergie 7 years at Utd before he won the league and while that is correct, times have changed. BUT when was the last time Utd won the league? In fact they've done next to **** all in the major comps for a while really. Finishing bottom of their group in the CL last season, they didnt pressure Chelsea anymore than we did last season and the season before. Infact, you could probably argue that Utd under Fergie were passed it, their bubble had burst. Fergie shouldve gone. No doubt, Mancs wanted shut and someone to come in. We had won the CL, the FA Cup and looked like we would be the major challengers to Chelsea. Power was shifting, they were not happy.

Now, Mancs, like us will have wanted shut of the old drunk, yet they stuck with him and ok, they havent been ****ed 6-3 at home, but Id take that over being made to look ***** in Europe like they did last season, but look at them now. They are, and it pains me to say it, a class side. They play the best football, anyone can see. Would they be where they are now, if they had ****ed Fergie off? No, I knwo they wouldnt because whoever wouldve come in wouldve changed things and it wouldve took time.

We should stick with Rafa, let him finish what he has started. With the Dubai people on board we will Rival Man Utd both on and off the field and 6-3 home defeats will be a thing of the past.

Rafa should shoulder some of the blame for last night of course but the team itself should take more than its share. Even under the dark days of Houllier, Evean or Souness, we never got ****ed that bad, yet you could argue at times we played worse football. At 1-1 we were playing some good stuff and again, like Saturday when 2-1 down, at 5-3 (jesus) we looked like we might do it, only to be caught out and sucked in.

I dont want Rafa out at all. I want him to be given the tools to finish the job. If it doesnt work, then I think he'd be big enough to acknowlege it.

A superb post, Mr. Glove.

[Harv]

You mean like upping your own performance and dragging your team back from 3 down to win the Champions League

Or upping your performance when 2-0 down in an FA Cup final and again winning the competition

Gerrards not a great talker BUT he has others around him who can and will take that responsibility (Carragher & Alonso)

Gerrard leads by example

no he doesnt, youve picked to moments when he HAS done what a captain should do....there have been many many times when he hangs his head.

I never once saw Keane hang his head when Utd were down

[Parm]

I don't think I'd class Alonso as being a big impact player, he's reliable, but not dynamic, and so far this season, to be honest, average.

I'd class Sissoko as a little above average at the moment, the jury is still out as its too early. He can defend yes, he can win a tackle, but the rest of his game is average.

Garcia is extremely inconsistent, but has a habit of scoring a cracker out of nothing...at very important times. I like Garcia, but more often that not, his passing and ball retention is abysmal.

Rafa's transfers have been average at best, I can't see it any other way.

Everyone raves about Kuyt, but I don't see a goal scorer. Sure he works hard and he has some qualities, but he's so far not justified the adulation that he receives (which is always based on work rate, and not talent).

Crouch, an average player on the whole, Bellamy was a good buy I think, definitley adds something to the team, Pennant.....well.

Looking at these transfers, who would fit into a Manu, Barcalona, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bayetn Munich side in the starting 11? I'd say only Bellamy and Alonso would get a fairly decent run, but would not be starters.

Rafa spent more money last season that Fergie.

I see your point and do agree to a certain degree, but fair's fair to Rafa. When his signings havent worked out he's shipped them off straightaway (Josemi, Morientes, Kronkamp,Barragan,Calliste) I'd expect, if players such as Fowler/Bellers/Pennant, Aureilio etc dont pull their socks up they will be out in the summer as well.

[Parm]

no he doesnt, youve picked to moments when he HAS done what a captain should do....there have been many many times when he hangs his head.

I never once saw Keane hang his head when Utd were down

sad but true.

[Sir Bob]

I wouldn't even think about sacking Rafa at the moment. His record with Valencia & LFC shows he's one of the best managers around. However, he's not beyond criticism when he messes up, and last night was a complete & utter mess. He took liberties with the game, thinking a largely 2nd string 11 would be good enough, and as we all know it wasn't.

Some of his transfer dealings do concern me. For me, we have too large a squad, full of mediocrity. He has had money to spend, not on the Chelsea or Man U scale, but more than most. His dealings have been adequate but no more than that. Not many of the players he has bought would be sold for more than we paid. The real test transfer wise will come if & when he has big money to spend. If he gets it wrong then, there will be no excuses.

I still have faith in Rafa, but this season has been poor. I didn't expect us to win the league but I did hope for an improvement on last year but that hasn't happened. Anytime this great club of ours takes a step backwards, questions will quite rightly be asked. Rafa has the rest of the season to make last nights nightmare nothing but a distant memory. His redemption starts on Saturday.

[Red_hot]

sad but true.

Carra should be the captain. IMO anyway.