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    #76
    Signing any player is a risk. Foreign, English or from wherever.

    I suppose it's natural to assume that the more ability a player has, the more likely he is to succeed/adapt.

    It's also wrong to assume player X will adapt to English football because he was successful in Spain. Nothing is guaranteed.

    One thing that does give me confidence is that Rafa seems to have a pretty good eye for a player. To date he's signed a few top players, a bunch of good ones and a few who haven't worked out/failed of which every manager has.

    Problem is we need top end players to make progress. So the pressure is on Rafa, and to a lesser extent George and Tom, to deliever this summer.
    I hate Polanski

    Comment

      #77
      Originally posted by CharlieMansonsSquint View Post
      Signing any player is a risk. Foreign, English or from wherever.

      I suppose it's natural to assume that the more ability a player has, the more likely he is to succeed/adapt.

      It's also wrong to assume player X will adapt to English football because he was successful in Spain. Nothing is guaranteed.

      One thing that does give me confidence is that Rafa seems to have a pretty good eye for a player. To date he's signed a few top players, a bunch of good ones and a few who haven't worked out/failed of which every manager has.

      Problem is we need top end players to make progress. So the pressure is on Rafa, and to a lesser extent George and Tom, to deliever this summer.
      benitez has generally been much more succesful than houllier and most refreshingly when he has bolloxed things up hes sorted it out - i.e nunez and that joker at right back that he shipped out. otherise hes done okay with what hes had - i just think he could maybe have bought less allowing him to buy better - theoretically - then used reserves and youth as back up thats my only criticism of him.

      Comment

        #78
        Originally posted by Mr Tourette View Post
        i just think he could maybe have bought less allowing him to buy better - theoretically - then used reserves and youth as back up thats my only criticism of him.


        A good point.
        The thought have crossed my mind, and I am sure, some of our ressies minds too.
        --== Because the gang and the government is no different ==--

        Comment

          #79
          Yes but I think he really believes that most of our reserves really are not good enough and won't be even with experience. Look at what he's been trying to do with the Academy and reserve teams.

          Behind-the-scenes, things were clearly going wrong under Houllier.
          .
          Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



          May the Lord bless this post.

          Comment

            #80
            Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
            Yes but I think he really believes that most of our reserves really are not good enough and won't be even with experience. Look at what he's been trying to do with the Academy and reserve teams.

            Behind-the-scenes, things were clearly going wrong under Houllier.
            Obviously he doesn't rate them, but there is a bit of Catch 22 in it though.
            Talent develops with experience. Hammil should have been given a sniff, also Guthrie a bit more.
            But, like you say, Rafa might not believe in them anyway.
            --== Because the gang and the government is no different ==--

            Comment

              #81
              Originally posted by Mr Tourette View Post
              benitez has generally been much more succesful than houllier and most refreshingly when he has bolloxed things up hes sorted it out - i.e nunez and that joker at right back that he shipped out. otherise hes done okay with what hes had - i just think he could maybe have bought less allowing him to buy better - theoretically - then used reserves and youth as back up thats my only criticism of him.
              Off the top of my head: his first team signings since he arrived:

              Cisse (£14m) - wasn't his choice, rightfully axed.
              Nunez (part exchange) - in exchange for Owen, gone within 12 months.
              Josemi (£2-3m? was it) - so didn't cost much, so no big deal he didn't cut it.
              Pellegrino (free) - we were short on cover and he was free, and that's all that was good about this one.
              Alonso (£10m) - no doubts about this one.
              Garcia (£6m) - has his faults, but has more than repaid the fee with his European pedigree.
              Morientes (£6m) - Had the ability - didn't adapt. Shame.
              Kromkamp (Exchange for Josemi) - made our money back on Josemi in the end.
              Carson (£1m) - At worst we'll make a massive profit if/when we sell him.
              Zenden (Free) - squad player, didn't cost anything.
              Sissoko (£6.5m) - has his limitations admittedly, but was still value for money.
              Crouch (£7m) - Fee seemed steep at the time, overall has been a good signing.
              Reina (£7-8m) - No questions on this one.
              Agger (£5.5m) - Bargain.
              Fowler (Free) - served a purpose as 4th striker.
              Gonzalez (£2m I think?) - jury's out.
              Kuyt (£10m) - Expected more goals but can't be disappointed with his contribution thus far. Next season will be telling.
              Bellamy (£7m) - Same as Kuyt.
              Pennant (£7m) - Has improved but still has it all to prove.
              Aurelio (free) - Needs to stay injury free.
              Paletta (£2m) - Would benefit from a loan to another English club.
              Mascherano (£?) - could be a great signing, but only time will tell.
              Arbeola (£3m) - Has looked good so far.

              So out of that lot only Morientes as the significant money signings has been an outright failure. Admittedly last summers signings still have quite a bit to do. I'd class Alonso, Agger and Reina as outright successes, Garcia, Crouch and Sissoko as good buys.
              Last edited by CharlieMansonsSquint; 05-03-07, 11:51 PM.
              I hate Polanski

              Comment

                #82
                Originally posted by tomasjj View Post
                Obviously he doesn't rate them, but there is a bit of Catch 22 in it though.
                Talent develops with experience. Hammil should have been given a sniff, also Guthrie a bit more.
                But, like you say, Rafa might not believe in them anyway.
                Maybe the loans they're on are attempts to bridge the gap between the reserves and the first team. I've only seen a few comments by Hammill but to me they suggest he thinks he'll be back and still has a future at the club.

                As for Guthrie, well, it's difficult to say given the strength we have in his position but he might be given a go if he does well at Southampton.
                .
                Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                May the Lord bless this post.

                Comment

                  #83
                  Originally posted by tomasjj View Post
                  Obviously he doesn't rate them, but there is a bit of Catch 22 in it though.
                  Talent develops with experience. Hammil should have been given a sniff, also Guthrie a bit more.
                  But, like you say, Rafa might not believe in them anyway.
                  Deleated
                  I hate Polanski

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Originally posted by CharlieMansonsSquint View Post
                    Deleated
                    These were two of the best of their generation, but imo ruined by GH.
                    If they had been at Arsenal they would have become much better players by now.
                    --== Because the gang and the government is no different ==--

                    Comment

                      #85
                      Originally posted by CharlieMansonsSquint View Post
                      Off the top of my head: his first team signings since he arrived:

                      Cisse (£14m) - wasn't his choice, rightfully axed.
                      Nunez (part exchange) - in exchange for Owen, gone within 12 months.
                      Josemi (£2-3m? was it) - so didn't cost much, so no big deal he didn't cut it.
                      Pellegrino (free) - we were short on cover and he was free, and that's all that was good about this one.
                      Alonso (£10m) - no doubts about this one.
                      Garcia (£6m) - has his faults, but has more than repaid the fee with his European pedigree.
                      Morientes (£6m) - Had the ability - didn't adapt. Shame.
                      Kromkamp (Exchange for Josemi) - made our money back on Josemi in the end.
                      Carson (£1m) - At worst we'll make a massive profit if/when we sell him.
                      Zenden (Free) - squad player, didn't cost anything.
                      Sissoko (£6.5m) - has his limitations admittedly, but was still value for money.
                      Crouch (£7m) - Fee seemed steep at the time, overall has been a good signing.
                      Reina (£7-8m) - No questions on this one.
                      Agger (£5.5m) - Bargain.
                      Fowler (Free) - served a purpose as 4th striker.
                      Gonzalez (£2m I think?) - jury's out.
                      Kuyt (£10m) - Expected more goals but can't be disappointed with his contribution thus far. Next season will be telling.
                      Bellamy (£7m) - Same as Kuyt.
                      Pennant (£7m) - Has improved but still has it all to prove.
                      Aurelio (free) - Needs to stay injury free.
                      Paletta (£2m) - Would benefit from a loan to another English club.
                      Mascherano (£?) - could be a great signing, but only time will tell.

                      So out of that lot only Morientes as the significant money signings has been an outright failure. Admittedly last summers signings still have quite a bit to do. I'd class Alonso, Agger and Reina as outright successes, Garcia, Crouch and Sissoko as good buys.
                      Excellent.
                      .
                      Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                      May the Lord bless this post.

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Originally posted by tomasjj View Post
                        These were two of the best of their generation, but imo ruined by GH.
                        If they had been at Arsenal they would have become much better players by now.
                        Maybe but that's a bit speculative. Not all young players step up. In fact, most don't.
                        .
                        Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                        May the Lord bless this post.

                        Comment

                          #87
                          Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
                          Maybe but that's a bit speculative. Not all young players step up. In fact, most don't.
                          Oh, it is just my opinion that they would have made it.
                          They had the raw ability.
                          --== Because the gang and the government is no different ==--

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Originally posted by tomasjj View Post
                            Oh, it is just my opinion that they would have made it.
                            They had the raw ability.
                            Yes, it looked like it. I'd agree that Houllier was a poor man-manager. In fact, I said as much on KT which, judging by the timing, directly led the board to look to replace him.

                            Whether his shortcomings led to problems for Le Tallec and Pongolle, well, of course you're right, it's entirely a matter of opinion.
                            .
                            Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                            May the Lord bless this post.

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Originally posted by tomasjj View Post
                              These were two of the best of their generation, but imo ruined by GH.
                              If they had been at Arsenal they would have become much better players by now.
                              Sorry thought your original post was about Ged.

                              But yes I agree he didn't give them the best possible environment to succeed.
                              I hate Polanski

                              Comment

                                #90
                                Originally posted by CharlieMansonsSquint View Post
                                So the pressure is on Rafa, and to a lesser extent George and Tom, to deliever this summer.
                                Do you mean HonorableGeorge and Tom(Numbers)?

                                Comment

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