Pennant

[tomasjj]

If we signed Ribery, we could put this on a flag:

Ribery - for our pleasure.

Daylight Ribery?

[Ron_Mexico]

FFS

what? :whatever:

he failed at barca because of this, and from what i've seen he hasn't changed at all

nice argument by the way

[dww]

I have to step in here mate.

The game has changed, these days, title winning sides have high scoring midfielders/wingers.

AA has a point.

I think that in the modern era you have to view it as having an attacking 4/5 - accepting that the back four and a holding midfielder will score minimal goals.

From there you have to get an attacking 5 that will score a lot of goals, not relying on any one individual. The fact is that quite apart from the goals added by midfielders themselves by presenting a threat they make it harder for the opposition to mark your forwards out of the game as they have to watch other players.

It is quite possible to have an attacking 5 which is capable of doing this with a player like Pennant who rarely scores - i think the real question is can you do it with Rafas prefered formation of two deep lying midfielder who will get limited chances and an attacking midfielder like Pennant.

I suspect not and that Pennant will be a squad player in the future as he does offer a good alternative to change a game which would be hard to replace. He simply doesn't have the qualities to make a championship challenging side that use Rafas prefered tactics (caveat: - It may be possible for him to add it to his game but he needs to cut inside further up the pitch as the way he does it now gives the ball away in too dangerous a position for my liking and I suspect that is why Rafa discourages him to do it).

[Jack D Rips]

what? :whatever:

he failed at barca because of this, and from what i've seen he hasn't changed at all

nice argument by the way

Apologies for not reading your post fully. I thought you were talking about Pennant

[Red_Polo]

I have to step in here mate.

The game has changed, these days, title winning sides have high scoring midfielders/wingers.

AA has a point.

He said he'll only consider him an effective attacking midfielder if he starts scoring more. That's complete bollocks, he doesn't have a point. He's been effective as is over the last couple of months, anyone can see that. Of course he'd be better if he scored more, no ****, but he doesn't have to score more before we can consider him a effective member of the squad.

Also, are you quite sure than title winning sides don't have low scoring wide players in their SQUAD let alone first choice team? It's not the 3 more league goals Giggs has scored this season that marks him out as the superior player.

It's important to have goal threat from midfield, and from more than just one midfielder, but to suggest that if an individual can create but not score he's not good enough is total horse ****.

[Jazzmaster]

He said he'll only consider him an effective attacking midfielder if he starts scoring more. That's complete bollocks, he doesn't have a point. He's been effective as is over the last couple of months, anyone can see that. Of course he'd be better if he scored more, no ****, but he doesn't have to score more before we can consider him a effective member of the squad.

Also, are you quite sure than title winning sides don't have low scoring wide players in their SQUAD let alone first choice team? It's not the 3 more league goals Giggs has scored this season that marks him out as the superior player.

It's important to have goal threat from midfield, and from more than just one midfielder, but to suggest that if an individual can create but not score he's not good enough is total horse ****.

Good Post, excellent referral to Giggs' goal tally. I also think if we do sign an out-and-out striker this summer, pennant will be even more effective from wide areas.

[red g]

not a big fan of pennant, but he is becoming 'a useful squad player' and yes he should score more but this is highlighted even more as we have no match-winners or creative players at the moment playing.( bar SG)

Hence why Giggs is still a great player this year as Rooney, Ronaldo etc make up for his lack of goals

[Red_Polo]

Thing is Giggs is more of a goal threat than Pennant, I wouldn't deny that, certainly over his career, but even this season. It's just that it's not the goals that make him valuable, they are a nice bonus. Like others said, if other in midfield can score goals it doesn't matter. If Pennant continues to perform at this level but not score very much we've got ourselves an effective player who should be in the squad for the long term.

[Jack D Rips]

Thing is Giggs is more of a goal threat than Pennant, I wouldn't deny that, certainly over his career, but even this season. It's just that it's not the goals that make him valuable, they are a nice bonus. Like others said, if other in midfield can score goals it doesn't matter. If Pennant continues to perform at this level but not score very much we've got ourselves an effective player who should be in the squad for the long term.

Why can others not see the sense in this post. If he keeps creating then it matters not who scores

[DannyMan2006]

Why can others not see the sense in this post. If he keeps creating then it matters not who scores

I'd go by the "Ice Hockey formula", 1 point for a goal and 1 point for an assist. If Pennant was to play every prem game I would look for about the 15 point mark.

So if he scored 7 goals and got 3 assists that would be ok, but 1 goal and 14 assists would be better. Of course, this wouldn't register the times he created space for others, or where he dribbles round a couple of players and passes for Finnan to assist in a goal, but I think its a good marker to aim for.

Of course he needs to develop the cutting in side of his game though. Without it he would become to predictable. Defenders know he doesnt shoot so can set themselves accordingly. Its like Stevie G on the left, always gonna cut in on his right and can become predictable.

[dww]

I think if JP could take good corners he would be beyond doubt worthy of a place in the team. The trouble is he doesn't very often and I would hazard that without good corners or rebounds from shots no winger in the league would get 14 assists.

[DannyMan2006]

I think if JP could take good corners he would be beyond doubt worthy of a place in the team. The trouble is he doesn't very often and I would hazard that without good corners or rebounds from shots no winger in the league would get 14 assists.

Maybe not, but 15 points is what a winger should be aiming for. If played in every game of course, which aint gonna happen with Rafa.

[red g]

Maybe not, but 15 points is what a winger should be aiming for. If played in every game of course, which aint gonna happen with Rafa.

i would say it should be 20 points if played every game i mean if he scores 5goals. that would be 15 assists which if he isnt scoring he should be supplying!!

'15pts' is not good enough to win you the league, i mean 30 pts from both wings is not good enough imo.

[DannyMan2006]

i would say it should be 20 points if played every game i mean if he scores 5goals. that would be 15 assists which if he isnt scoring he should be supplying!!

'15pts' is not good enough to win you the league, i mean 30 pts from both wings is not good enough imo.

Depends how you break it down. Lets say 80 goals is the goals we want to score during a league season. thats 80 goals and 80 assists. 160 points if you like. The points I would want from each position are as follows:

Keeper: 0 points
RB: 7 points
CB: 3 points
CB: 3 points
LB: 7 Points
RW 20 points
CM: 20 points
CM: 20 points
LW: 20 points
ST: 30 points
ST: 30 points

That would mean that if Garcia and Pennant were the players alternated on the RW all season I would expect 20 points between them. If 5 strikers were rotated I would expect 60 points between them, and then 40 points between the central midfielders , etc. Pretty high figures maybe, but there are always goals without any assists like pens, free kicks, OG etc. So that would bring down the total of 160. But its a nice ball park figure.

[dww]

Depends how you break it down. Lets say 80 goals is the goals we want to score during a league season. thats 80 goals and 80 assists. 160 points if you like. The points I would want from each position are as follows:

Keeper: 0 points
RB: 7 points
CB: 3 points
CB: 3 points
LB: 7 Points
RW 20 points
CM: 20 points
CM: 20 points
LW: 20 points
ST: 30 points
ST: 30 points

That would mean that if Garcia and Pennant were the players alternated on the RW all season I would expect 20 points between them. If 5 strikers were rotated I would expect 60 points between them, and then 40 points between the central midfielders , etc. Pretty high figures maybe, but there are always goals without any assists like pens, free kicks, OG etc. So that would bring down the total of 160. But its a nice ball park figure.

Not sure Rafa would ever have the two CMs attacking enough to expect 20 points from them. I think it is that slack that means we have to look for more from the 4 attacking players.