UEFA allegations - discussion

[El Jefecito]

Is the actual report available on-line / has anyone seen it, or are we going off of the headlines?

[Xavier]

From RAWK:



"If nobody else is going to defend us then we should do it ourselves.

We need a representative fan's body to respond to accusations like U.E.F.A. are making.

We need to respond quickly.

I propose an association as is the title of this thread.

Elected representatives from all the major websites.

When an issue like this pops up, they vote/agree on a press release statement.

We need our voice back."




I agree entirely.
The lack of response to today's mudraking from the top brass at Anfield is breathtaking. No doubt Parry is on bloody holiday as usual.

Regardless of whether Parry is on holiday or not, there should have been an immediate rebuttal of some sort. Surely, they've not all gone on holiday at the same time? And with all the technology in the modern world, how hard can it be to produce a response?

They must have been aware that this report was coming out. Therefore, they've chosen not to respond immediately - something I find quite staggering. It's no use playing the waiting game with things like this as, the longer it goes on, the more damage is done to our reputation.

The way the club is run is an absolute joke TBH. It's just disaster after disaster with Parry and co (the club shop being closed after the CL final in 2005 is popping into my head now for some reason). G & H need to get their arses in gear and sort this shambles out before Benitez walks.

[Dhav]

Regardless of whether Parry is on holiday or not, there should have been an immediate rebuttal of some sort. Surely, they've not all gone on holiday at the same time? And with all the technology in the modern world, how hard can it be to produce a response?

They must have been aware that this report was coming out. Therefore, they've chosen not to respond immediately - something I find quite staggering. It's no use playing the waiting game with things like this as, the longer it goes on, the more damage is done to our reputation.

The way the club is run is an absolute joke TBH. It's just disaster after disaster with Parry and co (the club shop being closed after the CL final in 2005 is popping into my head now for some reason). G & H need to get their arses in gear and sort this shambles out before Benitez walks.

Unfortunately Rafa walking might be the only kind of rocket up their arses that they need. Hope it doesnt come to that.

If Parry is on holiday now he needs to be shot. The ****er can go on holiday after all our dealings in the transfer market have been completed.

And why is the club doing nothing to defend it's fans? "you'll never walk alone" doesnt seem to work both ways.

[chavo]

If i had the money to buy a ticket and goto Athens only to turn up and find out that UEFA couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and asked me to go home cos some forign git had forged a ticket and made a killing on it..... I would be pissed off to. infact i would go as far to say i would be taking legal action. Maybe the cliub should start a mass legal action against uefa for being crap party organiser and making slander comments.

[Xavier]

I agree with the guy on RAWK's idea BTW.

It would need to be a credible group to be taken seriously by the media though. I therefore propose Dunk as Chairman - he is the head of the No 1 site after all.

[Dhav]

Personally I cant see any fan group being able to make much headway against UEFA. Any organisation of Liverpool fans would have greater success IMO by picketing the club and forcing them take up the cause of the fans on their behalf before UEFA .

[SouthAfricaRed]

listen lad i'm getting pissed off with logging on and seeing you getting your digs in.

Every set of fans has there ****s in em, and possible we have more than most. However, I WAS IN ATHENS and I saw the crushing etc. outside the ground FIRST HAND.
It wasn't Liverpool fans that funnelled thousands of people into a tiny gap and it wasn't Liverpool fans that battered and gassed innocent women like the one i sat with outside the stadium during the 2nd half.

I think by now we all know your opinion, and your both entitled to it and welcome to it.

However, if you're happy that we are now being told that we behave worse than any other set of fans in Europe then fine. If not, try being a bit more constructive in your criticism

But it was Liverpool Fans that stole tickets from Fellow Reds

It was Liverpool Fans that charged the stadium and got in with no Tickets

It was Liverpool Fans that got in with Fake Tickets

This forced the Police to close the stadium to prevent overcrowding inside the stadium and thereby denying Legal Ticket Holders to miss the game.

Yes UEFA are useless and their organization of this Final was nothing short of incompetent. There was not sufficient security at the stadium. This venue should never have been selected for the Final. The Police and Officials were not trained to handle the situation.

BUT

A group of our Fans must share responsibility for what happened.

It's nobody's Divine right to see a Final Live. If you dont have a Ticket for whatever reason, you have no Right to try to enter the stadium Illegally. Calling it 'Bunking' or some other Romantic name doesnt take away from the fact that your actions are Directly responsible for threatening the safety of others. Wearing a HJC emblem whilst doing this rapes the Memory of the 96

We need to find a way of policing ourselves. Our Fans are the best positioned to weed out this element in our group that none of us want there. Make a note (Take a picture) of those responsible and report them to the club.

We need to get rid of these thugs ASAP. They are responsible for giving ammunition to our enemies. Saying that every club has its bad elements is not good enough. By doing nothing we are condoning their actions

[Dhav]

But it was Liverpool Fans that stole tickets from Fellow Reds

It was Liverpool Fans that charged the stadium and got in with no Tickets

It was Liverpool Fans that got in with Fake Tickets

This forced the Police to close the stadium to prevent overcrowding inside the stadium and thereby denying Legal Ticket Holders to miss the game.

Yes UEFA are useless and their organization of this Final was nothing short of incompetent. There was not sufficient security at the stadium. This venue should never have been selected for the Final. The Police and Officials were not trained to handle the situation.

BUT

A group of our Fans must share responsibility for what happened.

It's nobody's Divine right to see a Final Live. If you dont have a Ticket for whatever reason, you have no Right to try to enter the stadium Illegally. Calling it 'Bunking' or some other Romantic name doesnt take away from the fact that your actions are Directly responsible for threatening the safety of others. Wearing a HJC emblem whilst doing this rapes the Memory of the 96

We need to find a way of policing ourselves. Our Fans are the best positioned to weed out this element in our group that none of us want there. Make a note (Take a picture) of those responsible and report them to the club.

We need to get rid of these thugs ASAP. They are responsible for giving ammunition to our enemies. Saying that every club has its bad elements is not good enough. By doing nothing we are condoning their actions

You make some very good points which are extremely difficult to argue with. Particularly agree that storming the ground was a pretty dangerous, insensitive and short-sighted thing to do, especially in light of Hillsborough. This is one where we couldn't claim to be completely innocent and blame the authorities. I dont want to defend our fans on this as some of what happened that night is indefensible.

On the other hand, you have to admit the situation would not have arisen had it not been for the way UEFA organised the event and allocated match tickets, the way the event was policed and also the way the club distributed match tickets. UEFA need to look at why they put in advertising hoardings that reduced capacity by 8,000 when they knew there would already be a shortfall of tickets. They need to ask if giving less tickets to sponsors will likely cause trouble at the ground or cost them money in the same way as if genuine fans miss out. They need to ask why they chose a venue with no turnstiles and gaping holes which encouraged fans to make a run for it into the stadium.

At the very least blame is 50-50. No way we should take most of the stick for this one,

[SouthAfricaRed]

You make some very good points which are extremely difficult to argue with. Particularly agree that storming the ground was a pretty dangerous, insensitive and short-sighted thing to do, especially in light of Hillsborough. This is one where we couldn't claim to be completely innocent and blame the authorities. I dont want to defend our fans on this as some of what happened that night is indefensible.

On the other hand, you have to admit the situation would not have arisen had it not been for the way UEFA organised the event and allocated match tickets, the way the event was policed and also the way the club distributed match tickets. UEFA need to look at why they put in advertising hoardings that reduced capacity by 8,000 when they knew there would already be a shortfall of tickets. They need to ask if giving less tickets to sponsors will likely cause trouble at the ground or cost them money in the same way as if genuine fans miss out. They need to ask why they chose a venue with no turnstiles and gaping holes which encouraged fans to make a run for it into the stadium.

At the very least blame is 50-50. No way we should take most of the stick for this one,

I wouldnt say blame is 50/50. Uefa must take the majority of the blame.

I'm just saying that we must share some of the blame.

As far as the ticket allocation goes, this is something that will only get worse when we move to a new stadium with more demand for tickets. Unfortunately it's a fact that corporate sponsors will get the majority of tickets. From Both UEFA and our Club's allocations. It's a necessary evil we have to accept for the increased revenue they contribute

[kurtangle01]

Check out www.newsnow.co.uk There's an article in the Independant which basicaly backs us up.

[Red Chilli]

**** UEFA. They are not worth our time.
I hope we don't respond to this, there is no point in getting into a slanging match with UEFA. EVERYONE knows it's total bollocks. What about the Inter fans who threw flairs at the Milan keeper? A match had to be abandoned because of the fans.

UEFA should not be WASTING their time doing pointless witch-hunting and get their own rotten house in order.

As far as I'm concerned, a dignified silence is the way to handle this followed by flexing of our muscles when the next G14 meeting occurs.

[darkstar]

I got this off of This Is Anfield, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Time to dump UEFA? Written by Geebo on June 3rd, 2007 ▪ Subscribe to TIA Alerts


I think the top European clubs should take a leaf from the book of the FA and dump UEFA!

The Football League used to control all four English Leagues. At a time when football was spoilt by hooliganism, Thatcherism, unemployment and dwindling gates, the FA invented the Premier League. As much as I hate the FA for being weak and knowing nothing about football, what they did was to lay the foundations for the success of Premiership today. The top clubs broke away and the Football League were forced to comply.

The Premiership had better sponsorship, better TV rights, new stadiums, anti-hooligan measures, Tony Blair came and the crowds came back to a healthier national game in terms of less hooligans and richer clubs.

Talk this year is not about the gulf between the Premiership and Championship, it is about the 60 million pound windfall the newly promoted teams can expect.

UEFA?

Hooliganism at the levels of our in the 1980’s continue to plague Italian football, but UEFA dont take any action. The five year ban on English clubs and six for Liverpool was a catalyst for England to clean up its game and we all enjoy the results today. UEFA isnt acting and hooliganism festers in Europe. Witness the behavious of poilce against Manu fans in France and in Italy. Witness the disgraceful Champions league punch up: What id UEFA do? NOTHING ! Meanwhile, a fan punches a German referee in a Denmark verses Sweden match. Violence is destroying football and UEFA are doing nothing.

Then the Champions league tickets shambles shows that when you put money and rich people who aetn football fans before football and real fans you get the recipe for disaster. How a second Hillsborough didn’t happen, only god knows. AND the UEFA have the gall to come out and blame the English for the worst hooliganism. A convenient whipping horse: Blame England, everyone will accepot that, then do nothing! Well I have just about had enough. Football deserves better. Not only that, they tell G14 to disband !

I urge the G14 teams to break away from UEFA. I urge them to do an “FA”. They should relegate UEFA to an umbrella organisation that oversees national leagues. They should invent a new overseeing body to control the Champions league and UEFA cups and European football. Then they should have new strong regulations to punish hooliganism and racism. They need strong new laws to protect referee who are leaving the game in droves in several countries because of continued attacks and bad press. They need a professional and honest approach to th Champions leaguie final which involves giving tickets to fans only Numbering tickets, professionla control at the game itself, better communication with the clubs involved and showing the game in the home stadiums of the final clubs.

It is not G14 that should disband, it is UEFA. They are not doing enough to help football, and the longer they remain in control and do nothing, the worse football will be effected.

Geebo

[Shaggy]

This story is now the TOP story on the BBC website. For ****'s sake....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/int/sp/shdr/hs1/t/-/news/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6717793.stm

[Phil Eel]

Are we suggesting that the report has been made up?

Fake tickets
Storming the gates
Trying to sneak in

All things the Liverpool fans were guilty of.

I guess it was UEFA’s fault for not policing the game properly, obviously we could not be expected to behave ourselves if they didn’t.

You're missing the point mate. Not condoning what some fans did, but, holding the 1985 final in a crumbling wreck of a ground, with no turnstiles and a chicken wire fence for segregation and not taking any blame, holding it in the middle of nowhere in Turkey and now the latest half baked atrtempt at organisatrion are unforgiveable. Now they say there are 20-odd incidents involving Liverpool fans making us the worst in Europe. Yet Galatasaray fans stabbed a Leeds fan to death. In Italy, it isn't unusual to have your arse slashed by lads on scooters, or once, see a scooter get thrown off a top tier of a stadium (I kid you not). Hardly compares to 'nicking a flag' (if that did happen) - and nicking a flag is hardly the same as wrecking a stadium, like some fans have done over the past few years.

This is just a blatant attempt by the scruffy headed garlic munching twerp to once again, deflect blame away from UEFA

[tomasjj]

This story is now the TOP story on the BBC website. For ****'s sake....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/int...ol/6717793.stm

Saw it... talk about jumping the bandwagon... :whatever: