A Critical Evaluation of Rafa

[zinedine cheyrou]

I really hope we start using that formation again soon.
We played some great stuff then.

who are the three u would play behind the striker and who is the lone front man in this formation ?

[dww]

I really hope we start using that formation again soon.
We played some great stuff then.

We also played as we did against United away using it. The work rate of the three is very important as well as the intelligence of their movement last season. It would help if Gerrard was willing to play right mid again in any sort of effective way - he now tends to drift left far too much.

I think we need either a rejuvinated Kewell or at least one new attacking midfielder before we see that formation used regularly.

[zinedine cheyrou]

We also played as we did against United away using it. The work rate of the three is very important as well as the intelligence of their movement last season. It would help if Gerrard was willing to play right mid again in any sort of effective way - he now tends to drift left far too much.

I think we need either a rejuvinated Kewell or at least one new attacking midfielder before we see that formation used regularly.

I completely agree, it may have worked well for chelsea but I dont honestly think we have the personnel to make it work over the course of a season.

[LFD]

Team 1

--------------Reina-------------
---Finnan--Carra-Agger--Riise---
-Winger-Gerrard-Mascher-Kewell-
---------Kuyt-----Striker--------

Team 2

--------------Carson--------------
--Arbeloa-Hyypia-Defender-Aurelio--
-Pennant-Alonso--Sissoko-Winger--
---------Crouch--Voronin----------

I know that those are just two examples, but for me Crouch would be in team 1 ahead of Kuyt. Kuyt works hard and is very likable and I think he got a decent goal return for his first season in the Premiership. He got just as many as Berbatov and everyone seems to be raving about him.

However Crouch has shown over the last season and a half that he is far more valuable than just a squad player, for club and country. His goals to games ratio was the best at our club last season (except for Fowler). He he been pretty prolific for England when used and was last season for us, he was clynical.

Now two season ago people thought he offered loads to the team, but there was question marks over his goals return. Last season (and from January the season before) he has scored lots of goals, as well as having the other sides to his games - such as holding up the ball, showing excellent touch (unlike Kuyt), assisting players (Something Gerrard benefitted from two season ago).

He's turning into a key player, improving all the time and I thought it was bordering on ridiculous the lack of playing time he got in the Champs League final.

[Morph]

I know that those are just two examples, but for me Crouch would be in team 1 ahead of Kuyt. Kuyt works hard and is very likable and I think he got a decent goal return for his first season in the Premiership. He got just as many as Berbatov and everyone seems to be raving about him.

However Crouch has shown over the last season and a half that he is far more valuable than just a squad player, for club and country. His goals to games ratio was the best at our club last season (except for Fowler). He he been pretty prolific for England when used and was last season for us, he was clynical.

Now two season ago people thought he offered loads to the team, but there was question marks over his goals return. Last season (and from January the season before) he has scored lots of goals, as well as having the other sides to his games - such as holding up the ball, showing excellent touch (unlike Kuyt), assisting players (Something Gerrard benefitted from two season ago).

He's turning into a key player, improving all the time and I thought it was bordering on ridiculous the lack of playing time he got in the Champs League final.

I agree to an extent, but i'm thinking more how I think Rafa sees it, and it seems like Rafa cooled on Crouch a bit last season, i'm not sure why. He obviously likes the hard work Kuyt does, and I think both are excellent choices as a striker partner for hopefully our new front man. Thats without even counting in Voronin as I'm not sure where he will fit into things either.

What i'm really happy about tho is the prospect of a 22-25 man squad of quality players, which going back about 3 years was so hard to even try and imagine.

Welcome by the way, hope you raise some more decent points

[Red_Al_77]

Has someone gone to bed yet? Can the adults be left alone to talk now?

[LFD]

I agree to an extent, but i'm thinking more how I think Rafa sees it, and it seems like Rafa cooled on Crouch a bit last season, i'm not sure why. He obviously likes the hard work Kuyt does, and I think both are excellent choices as a striker partner for hopefully our new front man. Thats without even counting in Voronin as I'm not sure where he will fit into things either.

What i'm really happy about tho is the prospect of a 22-25 man squad of quality players, which going back about 3 years was so hard to even try and imagine.

Welcome by the way, hope you raise some more decent points

I agree with that.

Looking at the options we had at centre midfield:-

Before - Hamann, Gerrard, Diao, Welsh

Now - Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Sissoko, Lucas.

Centre Defence:-

Before - Hyypia, Biscan, Traore, Carragher (possibly)

Now - Carragher, Agger, Hyypia, Arbeloa

However you could argue our striking options are getting weaker?! Especially when we had Owen, Anelka, Heskey and Baros.

[lfcruleus]

not that i'm bothered but out of curiosity why?

And as for back 5, I think we have the best back 5, our home record shows that, the away record was bit skewed, last season. Combined we conceded the same amount of goals as the mancs, and 3 more than the chavs.

1 Man Utd ----- Home Against 12---- Away Against 15
2 Chelsea ----- Home Against 11----- Away Against 13
3 Liverpool ---- Home Against 7 ------ Away Against 20

tbh these stats show why we dont have the best defense in the league, they are great when at home where we keep the ball and they have little or no pressure, but away from home where we struggle to keep the ball and they have pressure they concede more than the other top two.
Our defense is good enough to win us the league but our ability to score goals and not concede them away from home is not.
Why do we not keep the ball as well away from home? Mainly because teams let us have it and play in front of them at Anfield, scary really.

[Reds08]

Has someone gone to bed yet? Can the adults be left alone to talk now?

Nope. And I will be here all night now you have said that. The next person that tries to claim Agger is better than Ferdinand or Carvalho will be getting pulled up on it.:bird:

[Morph]

I agree with that.

Looking at the options we had at centre midfield:-

Before - Hamann, Gerrard, Diao, Welsh

Now - Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Sissoko, Lucas.

Centre Defence:-

Before - Hyypia, Biscan, Traore, Carragher (possibly)

Now - Carragher, Agger, Hyypia, Arbeloa

However you could argue our striking options are getting weaker?! Especially when we had Owen, Anelka, Heskey and Baros.

The way I see it, Rafa's had a plan and it started with getting a good solid frame first which is why the striking and creative options haven't worked out yet. Also the fact that they usually cost the most cash.

He sorted his engine room out first getting midfield and defense and keeper sorted with some very shrew buys, it's hard to do that with attackers.

As for the up front portion with the exception of Owen, I'd say Crouch and Kuyt are deffo improvements and Bellamy is probably on the same level as Baros, if we can get a finisher in eg torres

That'll give us - Torres, Kuyt, Crouch, Voronin - Now assuming Torres cuts it in the PL, that could be one very good front 4

[Morph]

Nope. And I will be here all night now you have said that. The next person that tries to claim Agger is better than Ferdinand or Carvalho will be getting pulled up on it.:bird:

Why are you so intent on saying the oppositions players are better than ours, Agger is better than ferdinand, not sure about Carvalho, lets give him another season and then make the judgment.

[Reds08]

Why are you so intent on saying the oppositions players are better than ours, Agger is better than ferdinand, not sure about Carvalho, lets give him another season and then make the judgment.

Ok, we don't finish comfortably behind chelsea and united because our players are worse, it's because...erm......oh:whatever:

Daniel Agger is NOT better than Rio Ferdinand.

[LFD]

I agree that Rafa has worked on a budget, he has had to. It is easier to buy quality midfielders and defenders than attacking players as they usually cost more money. Having said that he has still done a cracking job, finding players such as Agger and Sissoko.

I don't agree upfront. I wouldn't say Bellamy is an upgrade on Anelka (or Owen). I wouldn't say Kuyt was an upgrade on Hesey either (who would have be fab the way Rafa plays). Many of the problems upfront Rafa couldn't do anything about, such as Owen (contract being run down so far) and Anelka (whop had already gone).

It's a big summer for Rafa as now he will have money (supposedly) then the expectation will increase. No doubt the area where we need to improve is in the final third, creation and finishing of chances. Garcia and Kewell were big losses for this last season. Hopefully with their return and some new classy signings then we will see an improvement. As well as our big players such as Gerrard getting some good rest, as he in particular has played so much football over the last three years, with little rest.

[dww]

Why are you so intent on saying the oppositions players are better than ours, Agger is better than ferdinand, not sure about Carvalho, lets give him another season and then make the judgment.

I'm not really sure about this. The thing is that Ferdinand is a brilliant player when he has the right partner which he does right now. the trouble is that he needs to have someone to organise him and keep him on his toes but technically he is probably the best player of the three. He is however the last of teh three I would want in my team (irelevant of the fact that he plays for United) as I like players to be able to make decisions on their own when needed and to concentrate for entire matches.

Agger IMO is nearly as good as Carvalho but younger. In the next few seasons I think he will become better. He already contibutes more than Carvalho outside the defensive third.

[zinedine cheyrou]

Nope. And I will be here all night now you have said that. The next person that tries to claim Agger is better than Ferdinand or Carvalho will be getting pulled up on it.:bird:

Ferdinand is the most over-rated player in the league but obviouslu u just get sucked in by the media hype !! Vidic is a class centre half by the way and was the core difference in the manc defence.

Agger is a better player than Rio. Carvalho is a class act and would shade it against Agger