Should Liverpool have an affinity to Rangers or Celtic?

[PLY]

QUOTE=royzared44;672955]Liverpool and Rangers are traditionally Protestant clubs,the other two catholic.
When I was a kid in the 40s/50s there was not a choice the school and church you were born into decided your football team,it was the same in Glasgow,therefore our natural affinity is with Rangers.[/QUOTE]

Why does this question seem to crop up every year? Liverpool and Everton were both started by baptists and so technichally are both proddy clubs. Everton still has a baptist church on the corner of it's ground despite having a reputation as being the catholic club in Liverpool.

There are stories that Everton actually had a no Catholic policy in the early 1900'S but this has never been proven and in the early 50's they signed a few Irish players and so the local priests who were mainly Irish encouraged the kids to support Everton.

As for the church deciding your team well thankfully that medieval nonsense isn't as apparent in society any more and if you need to feel an affinity to another club you can do so of you're own free will.

I can only go on personal experience of seeing Rangers and Celtic fans en masse and say that I enjoyed the company of the Celtic fans a lot more - the Rangers fans were actually fighting amongst themselves along territorial lines. There's also the Hillsborough aftermath to consider.

When it boils down to it I support Liverpool and no one else but I appreciate when other people make friendly gestures towards me and will never forget the kidness that has been shown.

[Bob]

Liverpool was associated with protestants, ergo Rangers as has been said. It went as far as some sectarian songs being sung in some quarters in Anfield and there was allegedly even a King Billy/LFC flag in the Kop at one point.

As has been said the JHC campaign and the Celtic affection has erroded this link... thankfully.

Personally i'm delighted no actual link now remains with either.

As for those that say there is no bigotry from the Old Firm. Well while they've improved infinitely there is WITHOUT question still bilious rubbish perpetuated by both parts. No question. If you lived in Scotland for any length of time you'd unfortunately appreciate this.

[sonsofthedesert]

In England, the song's most famous outing was recorded in the early 1960s by the Liverpudlian Merseybeat group Gerry & the Pacemakers. It reached number one in the UK Singles Chart on the 26 October 1963 and stayed there for four consecutive weeks. It quickly became the anthem of Liverpool Football Club[1] and is invariably sung by its supporters moments before the start and at the end of each game.[2] The words You'll Never Walk Alone feature in the club crest and on the Shankly Gates outside the stadium.

The song has since gained popularity among the fans of other clubs around the world, including:

Scotland: Celtic
England: Ipswich Town
Bulgaria: CSKA Sofia
Austria: Rapid Vienna
Croatia: Dinamo Zagreb
Netherlands: Feyenoord, VVV, FC Twente
Germany: FC Bayern München, VfB Stuttgart, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke 04, Werder Bremen, FC St. Pauli, Alemannia Aachen, Mainz 05, Kaiserslautern, Borussia Mönchengladbach and Dynamo Dresden
Japan: F.C. Tokyo
Sweden: Helsingborgs IF
Italy: Genoa, Hellas Verona, AC Milan
Belgium: Club Brugge, Royal Antwerp, Sint-Truiden and KV Mechelen)
United States: North Texas Mean Green football
The Pink Floyd song "Fearless", from their 1971 Meddle album, includes a recording of the Liverpool Kop singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" at the end of the track.

The song also reached #1 in the UK charts in June 1985 for 2 weeks, a charity record, following the Valley Parade fire at Bradford City on 11 May 1985. The song was performed by The Crowd (including Gerry Marsden, Paul McCartney and Rolf Harris). [3].

After witnessing a rousing rendition of "You'll Never Walk Alone" at Anfield in 2007, the President of the Spanish Olympic Committee, Alejandro Blanco, felt inspired to seek lyrics to his country's wordless national anthem, the Royal March, ahead of Madrid's bid for the 2016 Olympic Games.[4][5] Details of a lyrics contest were published in July.[6]

From Wikipedia, I know not the most reliable but does go some way to prove the point.

[Dan]

Seems that United fans should be added to the England list:

This is clearly porn, dont click if you're in work. Ah feck it, its worth it

[carheex]

Neither.

Why should we have an affinity with any Scottish club? Complete non-starter for me, it's LFC 1st 2nd and 3rd etc. **** everyone else

[carheex]

Totally irrational post.
Celtic have proven time and time again that they respect Liverpool in times of trouble.

..except for when diouf spat in a fans face - class act I don't think!

[James]

Who really gives a ****, organised religion is the opiate of the masses.

Karl Marx wasn't completely wrong then.

[rushscored4]

Liverpool and Rangers are traditionally Protestant clubs,the other two catholic.
When I was a kid in the 40s/50s there was not a choice the school and church you were born into decided your football team,it was the same in Glasgow,therefore our natural affinity is with Rangers.

See whenever I've mentioned this to anyone - any non-Red - they swear blind that Liverpool was traditionally a Catholic club, even though it's clear from first hand evidence like yours that it wasn't.

I think it's because we've become so closely associated with Celtic in the popular mind in recent years through friendlies, cup ties, the singing of YNWA, Dalglish, and so on, that people think this.

It makes no difference to me, although I have a few relatives who would spit feathers if you suggested there was a definite link between Celtic and Liverpool.

My fathers side were Protestants, my paternal grandfather R.I.P. coming to Liverpool as a teenager from Govan. His father (William Gentleman Crichton) played for Rangers my Grandfather said. My mothers side were Catholic, my maternal grandfather R.I.P. was a Liverpool fan, though he also follwed Man Utd when Busby managed them as he liked Busby from his Liverpool days (he began hating them from the 70's onwards). His father was staunch Everton mind. I really don't know why my mums father supported Liverpool being a Catholic and his father supporting Everton. I'll never know I guess.

The Glasgow Rangers chap i spoke to objected to my singing Fields of Anfield Road as it was Fields of Athenry to him. I countered that it was an adopted tune of Liverpool with altered words, also that YNWA had been adopted closely by ourselves. I wasn't about to offend or argue with him, meanwhile I stood my ground diplomatically yet staunchly!!

"Such ****e" with respect is still recent history. My grandfathers related to it and they are in living memory for me and I respected them both. However things pass away and sectarianism has passed away in Liverpool, though not in Glasgow as yet.. I relate to Glasgow as a city and to their mentality being like minded to Liverpool. This is heartfelt by me.

I've always associated Liverpool with Celtic to be honest but I remember my dad saying Liverpool was for Protestants and Everton was for Catholics. Most of my family are Evertonians but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact we are all Catholics. In fact I know so because my dad was a Protestant (before he married my mum and became a Catholic) but he was also a staunch Evertonian.

Who cares really anyway? It's **** all to do with religion now if it ever was.

The truth of the matter is that Liverpool FC was originally formed by a Scot, John Houlding, who was a protestant Freemason and many of the early players were from the same background.

However, Liverpool the city has a predominantly catholic population as it was literally the first port of call for Irish emigrants. When I grew up all the schools in Liverpool were single denomination so you only mixed with kids of your own religious beliefs although many of us were more interested in football and fashion than following a foolish faith.

Over the years we have had a mixed following of catholic and protestant fans and I remember the 60s, 70s and 80s when the Kop used to chant "Rangers" / "Celtic" to each other depending on their religious persuasion!

Regarding "The Fields of Anfield Road" having the same tune as "The Fields of Athenry" which is perceived as an 'Irish rebel song', what about "Poor Scouser Tommy" which is sung to the tune of the protestant marching song "The Sash (My Father Wore)"?

[Sir Bob]

That's always been the case. They want Catholic teachers for Catholic kids. I'm not all together sure I see a problem with that.

it has always been the case but doesn't make it right.

imagine the fuss if schools had a policy of white only teachers, or no gay teachers or if single sex schools only allowed teachers of that sex. The truth is religious descrimination is the only bias that society still deems acceptable.

[Redspin]

Liverpool and Rangers are traditionally Protestant clubs,the other two catholic.
When I was a kid in the 40s/50s there was not a choice the school and church you were born into decided your football team,it was the same in Glasgow,therefore our natural affinity is with Rangers.

I agree that those were the traditional affinities - I grew up in the early fifties in Liverpool - but I disagree about the school and church you were born in deciding your football team. My family are all catholics but every single one of my extended family supports Liverpool, as do about 90% of my Catholic mates. Liverpool is the largest catholic diocese in the UK, so it stands to reason that many of our fans, like me, are (nominally) catholics

That's why the undeniable fact that Liverpool is traditionally the protestant club is such a paradox.

As for any affinity with Celtic or Rangers, I couldn't give a flying one about either of them. It's a ridiculous suggestion by the original poster

[Redspin]

Don't think that means anything any more mate, not these days. Although my auntie still spits when catholic funerals drive past. Weird considering my (blood) uncle is an irish/italian catholic from the scotland road but there you go.

My Celtic mate told me the other day that Celtic sang ynwa first. He is a consummate bull****ter but history throws up weirder **** than that. Anyone know their history well enough to say for real?

Yes I'm happy to confirm that your Celtic mate is talking through his ringpiece

[Redspin]

If I remember correctly Everton did not a sign Protestant player till the late 60s.
Liverpool had been signing anyone with talent for well over a decade at this time.
I do not remember sectarian songs being sung at Anfield when we played Celtic in the 60s.I do remember the respect because they were hard ****ers,but there was very little trouble in the town centre or in the ground.
I think a mutual respect was formed around this time.

The Protestant "No Surrender" chant was very very big in the 60s and a feature of just about every Anfield game

[Redspin]

The truth of the matter is that Liverpool FC was originally formed by a Scot, John Houlding, who was a protestant Freemason and many of the early players were from the same background.

However, Liverpool the city has a predominantly catholic population as it was literally the first port of call for Irish emigrants. When I grew up all the schools in Liverpool were single denomination so you only mixed with kids of your own religious beliefs although many of us were more interested in football and fashion than following a foolish faith.

Over the years we have had a mixed following of catholic and protestant fans and I remember the 60s, 70s and 80s when the Kop used to chant "Rangers" / "Celtic" to each other depending on their religious persuasion!

Regarding "The Fields of Anfield Road" having the same tune as "The Fields of Athenry" which is perceived as an 'Irish rebel song', what about "Poor Scouser Tommy" which is sung to the tune of the protestant marching song "The Sash (My Father Wore)"?

Mostly true, except that not everyone went to a school of their denomination. I went to state primary schools and a state grammar school because my old man said that his school, Sacred Heart in Edge Hill (demolished many years ago), was run by religious maniacs who beat the living crap out of the kids so he wanted his children in schools less dominated by religion - which was great for a totally irreligious person like me. There was one other catholic lad in our class and we were outnumbered by the three jewish lads! For what it's worth the other catholic was an Evertonian but all the jewish lads were Liverpool fans. Nearly all my mates in Speke and Wavertree where I lived over the years were both catholics and Liverpool fans.

[Johnny]

I agree that those were the traditional affinities - I grew up in the early fifties in Liverpool - but I disagree about the school and church you were born in deciding your football team. My family are all catholics but every single one of my extended family supports Liverpool, as do about 90% of my Catholic mates. Liverpool is the largest catholic diocese in the UK, so it stands to reason that many of our fans, like me, are (nominally) catholics

That's why the undeniable fact that Liverpool is traditionally the protestant club is such a paradox.

As for any affinity with Celtic or Rangers, I couldn't give a flying one about either of them. It's a ridiculous suggestion by the original poster

Yes I'm happy to confirm that your Celtic mate is talking through his ringpiece

The Protestant "No Surrender" chant was very very big in the 60s and a feature of just about every Anfield game

Mostly true, except that not everyone went to a school of their denomination. I went to state primary schools and a state grammar school because my old man said that his school, Sacred Heart in Edge Hill (demolished many years ago), was run by religious maniacs who beat the living crap out of the kids so he wanted his children in schools less dominated by religion - which was great for a totally irreligious person like me. There was one other catholic lad in our class and we were outnumbered by the three jewish lads! For what it's worth the other catholic was an Evertonian but all the jewish lads were Liverpool fans. Nearly all my mates in Speke and Wavertree where I lived over the years were both catholics and Liverpool fans.

Your posts say Liverpool fans are protestant,ermm no Catholic.

[publiusscipio]

I agree that those were the traditional affinities - I grew up in the early fifties in Liverpool - but I disagree about the school and church you were born in deciding your football team. My family are all catholics but every single one of my extended family supports Liverpool, as do about 90% of my Catholic mates. Liverpool is the largest catholic diocese in the UK, so it stands to reason that many of our fans, like me, are (nominally) catholics

That's why the undeniable fact that Liverpool is traditionally the protestant club is such a paradox.

As for any affinity with Celtic or Rangers, I couldn't give a flying one about either of them. It's a ridiculous suggestion by the original poster

I did ASK, not ASSERT in my initial post about support by Liverpool fans for Rangers, Celtic or NEITHER, so in ASKING in such a careful way I don't see that I was making a ridiculous SUGGESTION. Cheers.