THE post match reaction thread....

[cobain]

I'm also perturbed by the fact that when we are **** first half, we don't seem to change it and stop being **** second half.

Exactly! This is reall getting on my tits! We played like we should have played the whole 2nd half in injury time. Too late

[alunevans]

Exactly! This is reall getting on my tits! We played like we should have played the whole 2nd half in injury time. Too late

I watch other top teams play crap in the first half and I'm willing their opponents "take your chances now cos they won't stay this ****e for the whole game."

But we seem to. Once we start ****e (Istanbul apart!) we seem to continue in the same lacklustre vein.

[cobain]

I watch other top teams play crap in the first half and I'm willing their opponents "take your chances now cos they won't stay this ****e for the whole game."

But we seem to. Once we start ****e (Istanbul apart!) we seem to continue in the same lacklustre vein.

Yep. Chelsea are fiercly attacking from 50th minute onwards if the result is square or if they're chasing the result. We don't. We're just happy with posession (by posession I mean passes between the back four) and if we do get inside their penalty box, we start to pass the ball around like a hot potato instead of trying to actually score a goal. I don't think I have been ever so pissed at Rafa like I was today.

[bigfooty]

That's a fair point, Crouch only got 16 minutes today and I thought he caused them a few problems in that time, winning some balls on the edge of the box and also one chance he could have done better with. Considering he was our only other attacking option (apart from Torres) I'm surprised he wasn't brough on sooner.

[Red Chilli]

I'm glad I had to work today and consequently missed the march nd the team selections, otherwise I'd be as pissed off and as vehement as everyone else.
The bottom line(s) as I see it are:

Rafa rotates his squad, that's the way he does it, he's the best manager we've had for decades and if that's his plan we're just going to have to swallow it. It's time to back Rafa in my book.
If we don't back him, if the fury starts to penetrate our supporters at the gme then we risk jeopardising our best chance to win the league in decades.
Put yourself in the Chavs shoes, they've lost their best manager they've ever had, we can't allow the same thing to happen to us. Accept he rotates the squad, accept we will have some loss of momentum from time to time, but judge him at the end of the season.
Secondly, I think Torres has shown us what has been missing from our squad under Rafa and that is a world class striker to compliment our world class defence and midfield. But it's no good just having Torres, we need another for when Torres is unavailable/dropped. We must address this in January and whether it's Kuyt or, more likely Crouch, who makes way, it's immaterial. We need another world class striker. Time for G&T to open their cheque books again and for Parry to work some magic

Summary: Back Rafa, he's the best. This is our best start under Rafa. We need another striker.

PS: Hopefully the SCUM will get murdered tomorrow, and lose the match as well

[Tom]

It's always painful to lose. Oh hang on a minute we didn't, and we haven't lost yet this season. In fact we're second in the league. Doh! silly me I thought there was a crisis.

What a load of crap in this thread. "Pako won us the games, now he's gone we can't win" "Rafa should go".
jesus what a load of bollocks.

[Craig_H]

I'm glad I had to work today and consequently missed the march nd the team selections, otherwise I'd be as pissed off and as vehement as everyone else.
The bottom line(s) as I see it are:

Rafa rotates his squad, that's the way he does it, he's the best manager we've had for decades and if that's his plan we're just going to have to swallow it. It's time to back Rafa in my book.

It wont win us the league mate.

If we don't back him, if the fury starts to penetrate our supporters at the gme then we risk jeopardising our best chance to win the league in decades.
Put yourself in the Chavs shoes, they've lost their best manager they've ever had, we can't allow the same thing to happen to us.

Rafa isnt the best manager we've ever had. As for jeopordising our league chances, if this rotation system continues, they'll be jeorpordised anyway.

Accept he rotates the squad, accept we will have some loss of momentum from time to time, but judge him at the end of the season.

But why, when we've seen in past seasons, it doesnt work?

Everyone was looking at this season to be different and one HUGE factor in the optimism was the signing of Torres, finally what we've been wanting. And i stand by that still, the optimism IS valid. But when the reason of this optimism sits on the bench for the third of the games, we're back to square one.

By the current ratio, Torres will only start 25 or 26 league games. He'll do amazingly well to net 15 goals under those circumstances. And so we're back to where we were - no prolific goalscorer, not enough goals, not enough wins, not enough points, no title.

Secondly, I think Torres has shown us what has been missing from our squad under Rafa and that is a world class striker to compliment our world class defence and midfield. But it's no good just having Torres, we need another for when Torres is unavailable/dropped. We must address this in January and whether it's Kuyt or, more likely Crouch, who makes way, it's immaterial. We need another world class striker. Time for G&T to open their cheque books again and for Parry to work some magic

Very rarely does a club have TWO world class strikers. It's not necessary to win the league. Just play the one we DO have, it's really that simple.

Summary: Back Rafa, he's the best. This is our best start under Rafa. We need another striker.

PS: Hopefully the SCUM will get murdered tomorrow, and lose the match as well

He's only the best if we're sitting at the top after 38 games. Continue like this, and we wont be

[Joe King]

My opinion of Rafa is that I find him being too tactical if there is such a thing. I haven't watched the match but from what I have read the team played ****e, didn't create enough and the Brummies deserved the point.

The decision to not start Torres has baffled a lot of people, he was taken off against Porto for the league game however this was not to be. He decided to start Kuyt and Voronin. Two players who I think lack the pace to break defences and invite defences to press forward and put pressure on us. Torres would have been perfect to play against them. They aren't the quickest, they would have had to play deeper and Torres can beat defences not only by foot but also in the air. Crouch would have been good to start as well. Bombard the box with crosses. I mean MY GOD they played a four foot Ridgewell in defence. These are selections that Rafa should have made just by scouting one of their games.

It seems that Rafa just doesn't say to his players, play, like he probably did against Derby which is a shame. He needs to pick his best players unless they need to be rested. We had two shameful draws and we badly needed a win today, yet he decided to rest our marquee signing. Surely, Rafa realises that was a horrible mistake. Is he resting Torres for the Carling Cup?

Maybe Rafa rues letting Pako go now? Not only was Pako a really good coach but was really good tactically and has been a massive part of Rafa's success. Surely this could be bad in the long term future?

The draw against Birmingham at home is poor and Rafa needs to buck up his ideas for the game against Wigan.

[Craig_H]

It's always painful to lose. Oh hang on a minute we didn't, and we haven't lost yet this season. In fact we're second in the league. Doh! silly me I thought there was a crisis.

What a load of crap in this thread. "Pako won us the games, now he's gone we can't win" "Rafa should go".
jesus what a load of bollocks.

Tom, you're an intelligent bloke mate.

We're 2nd yes and havent lost. We've had ONE properly hard game. So far, the games we've won, we SHOULD'VE won. We havent done anything over or above what's required there. And when i say that, i'm talking in terms of a league title winning side. One which usually amasses 90+ points.

Everyone's talking about how we're better and we've improved, had a better start. And yes, we have. BUT....we've improved upon what was 20+ points inferior. We've improved and bettered ourselves against our own standards, but to win the title, we dont just need to see a gradual improvement on last season, we need to see a HUGE improvement. This isnt a puddle that needs bridging, it's a fecking CHASM. And draws at home to sides like Brum wont bridge it. We need to be looking at 15 home wins in the league IMO.

Based on what we've done so far, we need to win 14 out of the remaining 16.

I dont think i'm being melodramatic in saying that, over the course of the season, our current level will not be good enough. Based on the first 6 games, we're on course to finish on 78 or so. That wont win the league. It'll probably leave us 3rd.

[vonk]

Bring back Luis Garcia. Is he even getting a game for Atletico?

At this point I've stopped listening to Rafa's post match explanations. He surely can believe what he is saying? I'm hoping his words are some sort of smokescreen.

Shaggy, I'll say what you want to say: Riise is awful. He has no first touch or pace. He slows our play by playing backwards or square passes. He should be third choice behind Arbeloa and Aurelio.

[bigfooty]

Secondly, I think Torres has shown us what has been missing from our squad under Rafa and that is a world class striker to compliment our world class defence and midfield. But it's no good just having Torres, we need another for when Torres is unavailable/dropped. We must address this in January and whether it's Kuyt or, more likely Crouch, who makes way, it's immaterial. We need another world class striker. Time for G&T to open their cheque books again and for Parry to work some magic

We have a world-class central midfield but not a world-class midfield. Leto, Pennant, Babel and Yossi are not remotely world-class.

The lack of quality in wide areas is what is going to kill our title chances this season. We don't even have a guy in those positions who is a regular international starter in that role, nevermind "world-class". With the money Rafa has enjoyed that should simply not be the case.

[Red Chilli]

To DJS :

(I'm not going to do a big "quote off" because this thread is long enough )

First up, you say rotating the squad won't win us the league. WEll, that remains to be seen. Just because it hasn't in 3 seasons so far doesn't make it impossible. We're challenging, we're ahead of the SCUM.

Rafa isn't the best manager we've ever had, YET. But the potential is there, he's ony had 3 seasons. If he wins the Premiership he'll be up there. However, the point I was making in that statement was that we can't afford to lose our manager. With respect to you saying rotation won't win us the title because it hasn't so far, well I hardly think that's a fair statement. We haven't had a world class striker since Rafa arrived, Torres is the first. Now Rafa ha got the players he's wanted we can judge the system of rotation appropriately. If you don't have good enough players, then rotation or non-rotation won't make any difference.
WRT the 2 strikers argument. Well it may not be necessary, but under Rafa's rotation system, I think it is necessary.

Rafa is the best manager available to us, I can't think of any manager I'd rather ave running the team. I trust him, he's earned that, and I'm backing him.

[Craig_H]

You cant have world class players in every position.

I think the wingers are adequate. Babel will go on to become a very good player, and Pennant's only really lacking goals. They arent world class, but they're not going to be the deciding factor.

[JPK]

1. Rafa is in danger of losing the fans if he continues this rotation s**** for Torres. FFS our next game is Reading in the Mickey Mouse Cup, WTF is he doing not starting Torres today, for the second Prem game on the run.


2. I don't rate Voronin as highly as some. He has scored in easy games and looked poor aside from them.

3. Babel is a forward not a left winger.

4. Riise shouldn't be at the club.

Voronin was signed before the investment but I agree with you.
Babel will be a very good signing yet and I think he is a striker too.
Riise forgets he has a team around him when he hits his shots.It's an awful waste of possesion.
Torres scores 3in4 games and gets dropped.


Can you Imagine Rafa telling him why he is sitting it out and Torres looking at him thinking how mental he is.

Our back5 is so solid because the same 7or8 only play there but alot of the time we dont rotate and keep the same back5.
On the radio today it said Rafa has made over 40 changes to his team this year already.That must be all comps.

[Red Chilli]

We have a world-class central midfield but not a world-class midfield. Leto, Pennant, Babel and Yossi are not remotely world-class.

The lack of quality in wide areas is what is going to kill our title chances this season. We don't even have a guy in those positions who is a regular international starter in that role, nevermind "world-class". With the money Rafa has enjoyed that should simply not be the case.

I judge the midfield as a whole and under those circumstances we do have a world class midfied. Of course we can make improvements, bu that goes for every position.