Dirk Kuyt

[Tom]

We won but I don't agree with that we deserved to win the game. Wigan had at least as many big chances as us and they should have had a penalty, Carra should have been sent off in the penalty incident, and a goal.

The refs saved us this time.

The lino had already flagged offside, it wasn't a penalty. I don't even think it would have been a penalty anyhow even if it wasn't offside.

They didn't have as many good chances as us. sorry that's not right. Torres had 3 excellent chances on his own. They had one great chance at the end some long range shots and a half chance.

[Shaggy]

FWIW I thought we were lucky yesterday, but I am MORE than happy to be a bit lucky, be **** and still win. The Mancs have been **** at Everton, **** at Brum and **** at home to Spurs - but they've won them all.

Reina had stopped playing when Bent fired home, but he wasn't offside and I thought the Carra incident was a pen. Luckiest of all was the Aghahowa miss. **** that was ****e - we got away with it big style.

It's steadily evening itself out after the Styles/Chelsea catastrophe. We should've drawn yesterday, or even lost, but we won.

[Tom]

Fair enough.

I must admit I wouldn't complain if we won the league and Kuyt scored zero goals, I wouldn't ****ing complain about ANYTHING ever again , but you'd have to concede it would be an area we could improve upon for the following season.

I think that there's a lot of over-analysis going on. The plain facts are that we've made a good start, we're bedding in. some of the performances look a bit disjointed but that could be said of all our challengers exluding arsenal. We're moving forward and Kuyt is a key member of the squad in doing that. Still think it's unfair to pick him out. Pennant's another story though

[Shaggy]

I think that there's a lot of over-analysis going on. The plain facts are that we've made a good start, we're bedding in. some of the performances look a bit disjointed but that could be said of all our challengers exluding arsenal. We're moving forward and Kuyt is a key member of the squad in doing that. Still think it's unfair to pick him out. Pennant's another story though

[Tom]

We won but I don't agree with that we deserved to win the game. Wigan had at least as many big chances as us and they should have had a penalty, Carra should have been sent off in the penalty incident, and a goal.

The refs saved us this time.

We had 20 shots to their 9. I think that pretty much sums the match up. Remember they were the home side.....

[CAD]

I just don't get it.

Now this opinion won't be popular - I suspect - but it's bothering me greatly ever since we signed him.

I’ve come to the conclusion that Kuyt is not Liverpool quality. Never was, never will be.

Let me explain.

I don't want to bash the guy, he works hard and plays with passion, but so would I if I got to play for LFC.

See I, like lots of others on here, was brought up on Kenny Dalglish's all round genius, Ian Rush's goals, Beardleys magic passing, Fowler's goal poaching brilliance and latterly Michael Owen's 1 in 2 goals to games ratio bailing Ged out of the ****e, time after time.

Torres is the first striker we've had since Owen, who has a legit chance of being in the same class as those, mentioned above, yet yesterday both Kuyt and Voronin – both inferior players we can all agree - were picked ahead of him for tactical reasons.

I was also brought up with the philosophy where you play your best players in your most important games. Birmingham at home is a must win game for us, infact every league game should be viewed as such. But is it?

I'd like to think Rafa knows a hell of a lot more than me, but how on earth does that makes sense?

Now I don’t want to single him out, but because he seems to play every game, he’s one of the most visible members of the first team squad. There are others who IMO clearly aren’t up to scratch, but who don’t start as often. I want to make it clear that I’m not here to attack Kuyt because of yesterday, too many, including our best player, our captain, didn’t perform to their usual standards. I’m simply fed up of seeing ****e forwards - who don’t threaten to opposition - play for us. That statement might make me sound childish and spoilt, but I’m just being honest.

Birmingham yesterday were comfortable playing against Kuyt in particular, Against teams defending deep at Anfield he hasn't the pace to threaten in behind, nor is he dominant in the air to win crosses thrown in. And I‘d rather not comment on his first touch.

So somebody explain it to me.

I don't go to the games every week, can one of the seasies tell me, is there something he does during the game which you can't see watching him on the telly?

As for Rafa he’s made some avoidable mistakes so far this season, will he learn from them? I just hope that he doesn't fall into the trap of his ego, like, dare I say a certain French hack that used to manage us.

I don’t want to be accused of an overreaction. 12 points from 6 games is the best start we’ve had in years in what could be one of the most open leagues in years.

But it could and should’ve been better had Rafa not messed around. I hate stats, but here’s one; in the 4 league games Torres has started we’ve won 3 and drawn one, which but for a diving Frenchy and a shaky ref we would’ve. The other 2 games he hasn’t started we’ve failed to win.

I just hope that Rafa doesn’t use Torres from the start against reading in the league cup, because he will get an awful lot of stick for that.

I think if we’re able to play our best 7-8 players most league games, we’ll be in with a shot, but if keep leaving out our genuine top quality difference makers, we won’t be.

Ready to be sent to the Gallows now.

Interesting post and very diplomatic, Niall. (Is that the Pulpfiction GoldClub Avatar Niall from scotland?)

I offer this rebottle:

I think Kuyt has one big problem with playing in Liverpool. Rotation. Some players like it, others don't.

Kuyt doesn't need rotation. He could run 20 miles every game and be ready the day after. He's build like the incredible Hulk. Pure and simple.

At his best in Feyernord he started every game and roamed all over the pitch. He scored a lot on his own as well. Obviously in an inferior league but he's touch was a lot better. He's the kind of player who just needs to play as much as possible to find his topform.

I doubt we will ever see the best of him under Rafa. This is not an attack at Rafa, I just think that Kuyt was not build for heavy rotation.

Someone in this thread mentioned that Torres and Kuyt looked really good together in the start of the PL. I think so too.

It's hard enough to gain momentum. It's even harder seeing it being pissed away on principle.

[Shaggy]

Interesting post and very diplomatic, Niall. (Is that the Pulpfiction GoldClub Avatar Niall from scotland?)

I offer this rebottle:

I think Kuyt has one big problem with playing in Liverpool. Rotation. Some players like it, others don't.

Kuyt doesn't need rotation. He could run 20 miles every game and be ready the day after. He's build like the incredible Hulk. Pure and simple.

At his best in Feyernord he started every game and roamed all over the pitch. He scored a lot on his own as well. Obviously in an inferior league but he's touch was a lot better. He's the kind of player who just needs to play as much as possible to find his topform.

I doubt we will ever see the best of him under Rafa. This is not an attack at Rafa, I just think that Kuyt was not build for heavy rotation.

Someone in this thread mentioned that Torres and Kuyt looked really good together in the start of the PL. I think so to.

It's hard enough to gain momentum. It's even harder seeing it being pissed away on principle.

But Kuyt is hardly ever rotated.

Crouch, on the other hand, is being asked to play about once a month and it's a perfectly valid reason for his below-par performances. He's our new tampon - in for a week and out for a month - and no striker can perform when being used like that.

Kuyt, however, has no such excuse.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

This is a **** thread. It really is. Kuyt's a good squad player I don't recognise this description of him as some kind of inept, desperately out of his depth.

I really dislike the scapegoating that happens on these boards.
Any thread that begins with a players name....jesus it's getting tedious.

Last week alonso - who will be it be next week. I already see the vultures circling over the crow (sorry to mix metaphors/nicknames). Yossi will have a bad game soon and he'll be the new smicer...

I really don't care about individual performances (or rather people's perception of them) what I care about is how the team plays. We've been below par the last 2 or 3 games - as a team. I really can't see how pennant's, kuyt's (before that alonso's) performances haven't been noticably worse than any other team member.

You've got it all wrong.

I judge players on their performances.

And Kuyt, since he's been here, just hasn't consistently done it.

Neither has Pennant for that matter.

They've both been here for over a year now, they should be performing. They aren't.

[thekop]

The mistake he did when Wigan scored the goal that was ruled out was a mistake that easily could have costed us the game
It was a mistake he did because he was to lazy to run up instead of walking back.

[CAD]

But Kuyt is hardly ever rotated.

Crouch, on the other hand, is being asked to play about once a month and it's a perfectly valid reason for his below-par performances. He's our new tampon - in for a week and out for a month - and no striker can perform when being used like that.

Kuyt, however, has no such excuse.

He is rotated. The Pompey, Sunderland and reading game etc etc. They all are with no exception. My point is valid.

This season it seems that Rafa finally managed to break Crouch down. I don't think that Crouch was ever really good enough, so I'm actually pleased he's leaving but I feel for him on a personal level.

What worries me is that Rafa is showing the finesse of Soueness. He seems to have very little regard for the psychological aspects of sqaud management. He certainly is no Freud. It could backfire given enough time.

[Shaggy]

Kuyt has started 5 games out of 7 in the league. Same as Torres. Far more than Crouch and Voronin. He is the least-rotated striker, having played in more CL games than Torres.

[CAD]

Kuyt has started 5 games out of 7 in the league. Same as Torres. Far more than Crouch and Voronin. He is the least-rotated striker, having played in more CL games than Torres.

I'm avare of that. I'm saying:

He needs to start every game to be at his best

It's not about 7 games.

[Shaggy]

He needs to start every game to be at his best

All strikers do, but no-one plays every game anymore. No-one. Kuyt is getting picked almost week-in, week-out. He can have no complaints and this excuse doesn't wash in his case.

[CAD]

All strikers do, but no-one plays every game anymore. No-one. Kuyt is getting picked almost week-in, week-out. He can have no complaints and this excuse doesn't wash in his case.

Fair enough. I think it does. Kuyt probably has a better physic than anybody else in the squad. Rotation only disturbs him. Obviously no-one can play every game. I still don't understand why Torres had to start in the Mickey mouse Cup.

Whether Kuyt is good enough to start every PL/CL game is another story. in a 4-4-2 I would play him next to Torres everytime.

[Shaggy]

Dirk seems to have lost that effervescence he had in his early days with us. He was so vibrant and involved in everything. Maybe he's lost some confidence or feels inhibited by the brilliance of Torres (I think Crouch possibly feels the same - slightly inadequate in Fernando's presence) but he's not been up to scratch this season.

I think everyone hoped he'd kick on from a decent (no better) first season. He's gone backwards.