what do you want to ask rafa

[alunevans]

It's boring, isn't it? Much more fun to complain about anything between the earth and the skies, makes you seem more knowledgeable. It's of course impossible that there are people who analyzed the game and reached the conclusion that Rafa Benitez' tactical decisions have nothing to do with the poor results lately. No way, they must be arse licking the manager.

It IS possible that they've analysed the game and reached the same conclusion.

But then it'd be nice to see that analysis instead of simply saying "Rafa's a better manager than you."

If you have the analysis then educate the rest of us ignorant fools. Don't just message with a "shut up" with mere deference as justification.

I'm interested in people's views. I'm not interested in the assumption that Rafa has papal infallibility.

[Neil Young]

It IS possible that they've analysed the game and reached the same conclusion.

But then it'd be nice to see that analysis instead of simply saying "Rafa's a better manager than you."

If you have the analysis then educate the rest of us ignorant fools. Don't just message with a "shut up" with mere deference as justification.

I'm interested in people's views. I'm not interested in the assumption that Rafa has papal infallibility.

I really think that's uncalled-for. I've not read anyone claim Rafa is infallible. What they do claim is that, in most cases, other people's opinions are worth less because they don't know as much about it. In one sense I disagree with that - I don't think we should always defer to experts. However, in another sense I do think it's a valid point to make - some people seem to have an unjustified and unjustifiable faith in the wisdom of their own opinions.

Clearly some people on here know more than others and it's up to each of us to decide whose judgments we feel are sounder than most.

Arsenal fans say "in Arsene we trust". They don't say Wenger can do no wrong. It's a fine distinction at times but it is crucial.

No-one actually says that Rafa can do no wrong. It's an exaggeration, a jibe and a smear and I really wish people would stop saying it.

Btw, this isn't directed at you in particular, Alun - I just saw it in your post and thought it was about time I spoke my mind on the matter.

[Pacman]

I really think that's uncalled-for. I've not read anyone claim Rafa is infallible. What they do claim is that, in most cases, other people's opinions are worth less because they don't know as much about it. In one sense I disagree with that - I don't think we should always defer to experts. However, in another sense I do think it's a valid point to make - some people seem to have an unjustified and unjustifiable faith in the wisdom of their own opinions.

Clearly some people on here know more than others and it's up to each of us to decide whose judgments we feel are sounder than most.

Arsenal fans say "in Arsene we trust". They don't say Wenger can do no wrong. It's a fine distinction at times but it is crucial.

No-one actually says that Rafa can do no wrong. It's an exaggeration, a jibe and a smear and I really wish people would stop saying it.

Btw, this isn't directed at you in particular, Alun - I just saw it in your post and thought it was about time I spoke my mind on the matter.

-----------------Reina
-Alves------Carra-------Agger------Inusa
-Gerrard---Mascher------Alonso----Babel
---------------Lucas
--------------------Torres


Rafa have said that is has best team and I think that also.

In my opinion of course.

[JohnDoe]

It IS possible that they've analysed the game and reached the same conclusion.

But then it'd be nice to see that analysis instead of simply saying "Rafa's a better manager than you."

It's a sig, an excellent I might add, but it's still a sig

If you have the analysis then educate the rest of us ignorant fools. Don't just message with a "shut up" with mere deference as justification.

I'm interested in people's views. I'm not interested in the assumption that Rafa has papal infallibility.

My view is that the team picked for the match was spot on and we didn't win because of two defensive mistakes that resulted in Spurs scoring two goals against the run of play. From that point the players' confidence was shot down and they started rushing attacks, which caused inaccurate passing and frequent losses of possession.

If you've seen the match, Rafa was spotted on two occasions motioning to his players to "calm things down" and start playing with more patience. Unfortunately Gerrard did not step up when we needed him the most and completely disappeared from the game, leading to us missing a metronome in the centre of the pitch who could control our game and call the shots.

Eventually Mascherano took the responsibility and we started pressing Spurs in their half, resulting in the goal. The result, considering our complete dominance in the first half, was harsh.

If you think that some tactical decision to put Kuyt for about 7 minutes on the right and only bring Benayoun later is a "blunder" which might have cost us the game, you're clutching at straws.

If you're complaining about our passing in the game, remember that the manager can't run into the pitch and join in, he can simply instruct his players on what to do and it is up to them to deliver. They didn't, despite playing very well in the first half, when they should have scored at least another goal. Something with their mentality was hurt after conceding two goals in the manner they did, and I noticed it right away.

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

I really think that's uncalled-for. I've not read anyone claim Rafa is infallible. What they do claim is that, in most cases, other people's opinions are worth less because they don't know as much about it. In one sense I disagree with that - I don't think we should always defer to experts. However, in another sense I do think it's a valid point to make - some people seem to have an unjustified and unjustifiable faith in the wisdom of their own opinions.

Clearly some people on here know more than others and it's up to each of us to decide whose judgments we feel are sounder than most.

Arsenal fans say "in Arsene we trust". They don't say Wenger can do no wrong. It's a fine distinction at times but it is crucial.

No-one actually says that Rafa can do no wrong. It's an exaggeration, a jibe and a smear and I really wish people would stop saying it.

Btw, this isn't directed at you in particular, Alun - I just saw it in your post and thought it was about time I spoke my mind on the matter.

Old fool!

[tomasjj]

Was playing Momo at centre mid against Marseille at home a mistake?

[Pacman]

Old fool!

Never a truer word spoken

[Pacman]

Was playing Momo at centre mid against Marseille at home a mistake?

I think we all know the answer to that

[tomasjj]

I think we all know the answer to that

I want to hear him say it.

And hear his reasoning for starting him there.

[Neil Young]

-----------------Reina
-Alves------Carra-------Agger------Inusa
-Gerrard---Mascher------Alonso----Babel
---------------Lucas
--------------------Torres


Rafa have said that is has best team and I think that also.

In my opinion of course.

It's not nice to pick on individuals.

Old fool!

Fair comment.

Never a truer word spoken

[Pacman]

It's not nice to pick on individuals.

I just wanted to distract you from the usual bollocks you spout on these forums

[Neil Young]

I just wanted to distract you from the usual bollocks you spout on these forums

Many have tried. None has succeeded. You'll never change me, Pacman.

[alunevans]

I really think that's uncalled-for. I've not read anyone claim Rafa is infallible. What they do claim is that, in most cases, other people's opinions are worth less because they don't know as much about it. In one sense I disagree with that - I don't think we should always defer to experts. However, in another sense I do think it's a valid point to make - some people seem to have an unjustified and unjustifiable faith in the wisdom of their own opinions.

Clearly some people on here know more than others and it's up to each of us to decide whose judgments we feel are sounder than most.

Arsenal fans say "in Arsene we trust". They don't say Wenger can do no wrong. It's a fine distinction at times but it is crucial.

No-one actually says that Rafa can do no wrong. It's an exaggeration, a jibe and a smear and I really wish people would stop saying it.

Btw, this isn't directed at you in particular, Alun - I just saw it in your post and thought it was about time I spoke my mind on the matter.

Neil

Its fine to say In Arsene We Trust, but to respond to a discussion about a particular decision Wenger made by saying In Arsene We Trust simply shuts discussion down as though its not valid to question ANYTHING because we're just a bunch of plebs who go the match, and the manager is the manager.

Likewise its fine to say "I value Rafa and think he's a better manager than you", but really so what? If we were discussing whether Rafa Benitez should be managing LFC next season or whether Alun Parry should then it'd be a valid contribution.

Otherwise it's just a fancy way of telling everyone to shut the hell up. Which in my view is out of order. It's not sufficient to say he's a better manager than me when I question the style of play that we're engaging in at the moment. So what if he is a better manager than me? It doesn't address the point.

Any questioning of anything the manager does can be suffocated by that which in the end will translate into Rafa can do no wrong, because if you use the "he's a better manager than you so I'm trusting him line" on every critique given then that's what you end up with.

I'd rather be given the analysis of why his decision was right. At least that's a thought through opinion and has the ability to change my mind and see the world differently. To simply say Rafa Knows Best is not a thought through opinion, it is fawning deference, at least if it's expressed in that way.

I'm happy for people to tell me I'm wrong. That's why I enjoy this forum. I'm happy to have my mind changed too. Happens often. But I do want an opinion of WHY Rafa is right that goes beyond "he is Rafa and you're not."

And unless people do that then the logical conclusion will be that Rafa can do no wrong, because its often the stock response to any criticism given. And for me, that's not good enough.

If Rafa CAN do wrong, then let the debate continue, and let the critique be answered by *reasons* why he got it right rather than mere assertions that he is Rafa and we're not.

[alunevans]

It's a sig, an excellent I might add, but it's still a sig



My view is that the team picked for the match was spot on and we didn't win because of two defensive mistakes that resulted in Spurs scoring two goals against the run of play. From that point the players' confidence was shot down and they started rushing attacks, which caused inaccurate passing and frequent losses of possession.

If you've seen the match, Rafa was spotted on two occasions motioning to his players to "calm things down" and start playing with more patience. Unfortunately Gerrard did not step up when we needed him the most and completely disappeared from the game, leading to us missing a metronome in the centre of the pitch who could control our game and call the shots.

Eventually Mascherano took the responsibility and we started pressing Spurs in their half, resulting in the goal. The result, considering our complete dominance in the first half, was harsh.

If you think that some tactical decision to put Kuyt for about 7 minutes on the right and only bring Benayoun later is a "blunder" which might have cost us the game, you're clutching at straws.

If you're complaining about our passing in the game, remember that the manager can't run into the pitch and join in, he can simply instruct his players on what to do and it is up to them to deliver. They didn't, despite playing very well in the first half, when they should have scored at least another goal. Something with their mentality was hurt after conceding two goals in the manner they did, and I noticed it right away.

Thanks JD. I agree with a lot of that to be fair.

But my point about the passing goes beyond this one game. I really do think we hoof it too much and our players are too static.

Like I say, Rafa's not Ged, but I'm not convinced he's as insistent on possession football as I believe he should be.

The 7 minutes that Kuyt was on out of position didn't cost us the game, you're right. But it is puzzling that he does this ingame rotation of positions at sub time, so worth people questioning it.

And I still don't get why we took off our best player, Voronin.

But like I say, I agree with a lot of what you said

[Tee]

Neil

Its fine to say In Arsene We Trust, but to respond to a discussion about a particular decision Wenger made by saying In Arsene We Trust simply shuts discussion down as though its not valid to question ANYTHING because we're just a bunch of plebs who go the match, and the manager is the manager.

Likewise its fine to say "I value Rafa and think he's a better manager than you", but really so what? If we were discussing whether Rafa Benitez should be managing LFC next season or whether Alun Parry should then it'd be a valid contribution.

Otherwise it's just a fancy way of telling everyone to shut the hell up. Which in my view is out of order. It's not sufficient to say he's a better manager than me when I question the style of play that we're engaging in at the moment. So what if he is a better manager than me? It doesn't address the point.

Any questioning of anything the manager does can be suffocated by that which in the end will translate into Rafa can do no wrong, because if you use the "he's a better manager than you so I'm trusting him line" on every critique given then that's what you end up with.

I'd rather be given the analysis of why his decision was right. At least that's a thought through opinion and has the ability to change my mind and see the world differently. To simply say Rafa Knows Best is not a thought through opinion, it is fawning deference, at least if it's expressed in that way.

I'm happy for people to tell me I'm wrong. That's why I enjoy this forum. I'm happy to have my mind changed too. Happens often. But I do want an opinion of WHY Rafa is right that goes beyond "he is Rafa and you're not."

And unless people do that then the logical conclusion will be that Rafa can do no wrong, because its often the stock response to any criticism given. And for me, that's not good enough.

If Rafa CAN do wrong, then let the debate continue, and let the critique be answered by *reasons* why he got it right rather than mere assertions that he is Rafa and we're not.

Good post.

Thats what I thought these forums are for - good discussions about team, Manager, tactics etc...