Clattenberg dumped!

[desertscouser]

The Kuyt challenge (not the "Kuyt kung fu incident" ) was not a definite sending off. He certainly could have been and maybe he should have been but it wasn't a certainty like a lot of people (including too many people on here) are making out.

I was watching sly sports on Sunday morning and they had Tony Adams and David O'Leary on as guests and I think it was Adams that said that if a player launches himself off the ground for a tackle with two feet up then it should be an automatic sending off. He said it was a FIFA directive. Now I have no idea whether what he was saying was true or not...

[Neil Young]

the rule is if both feet are off the floor, not if he connects with him and breaks his leg, it just isn't a matter of oppinion it's a matter of fact

What about if the referee sees it as an attempted block rather than an attempted tackle?

[Morph]

What about if the referee sees it as an attempted block rather than an attempted tackle?

I suppose it would depend on how close he was to the player, if it was close enough to be dangerous then he's off

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I was watching sly sports on Sunday morning and they had Tony Adams and David O'Leary on as guests and I think it was Adams that said that if a player launches himself off the ground for a tackle with two feet up then it should be an automatic sending off. He said it was a FIFA directive. Now I have no idea whether what he was saying was true or not...

Ignore him. He was most likely pished again.

[Neil Young]

I suppose it would depend on how close he was to the player, if it was close enough to be dangerous then he's off

So you'd agree it's a matter of whether the referee deems it dangerous or not?

[Red Chilli]

Personal opinion:

Gerrard incident = pen and red card
Neville incident = pen and red card
Lescott incident = pen and yellow card
Kuyt 2 footer= red card.

He got 50% of them right

[Joe King]

I was watching sly sports on Sunday morning and they had Tony Adams and David O'Leary on as guests and I think it was Adams that said that if a player launches himself off the ground for a tackle with two feet up then it should be an automatic sending off. He said it was a FIFA directive. Now I have no idea whether what he was saying was true or not...

He was probably on the piss anyway. Bull****ter. The most dullest man in football and he works with Harry Redknapp!

[Morph]

So you'd agree it's a matter of whether the referee deems it dangerous or not?

you telling me there was debating how close kuyt was to neville? which lets not forget is the situation we're talking about

[desertscouser]

Ignore him. He was most likely pished again.

[Neil Young]

you telling me there was debating how close kuyt was to neville, which lets not forget is the situation we're talking about

I'm telling you the referee could easily have deemed at an attempt at a block (given that he didn't actually go in with his feet but his shins as far as I can see) and since he didn't make contact then you can argue it wasn't dangerous. Apart from handball, intent is irrelevant to the laws of the game these days (something many ex-pro pundits seem not to have grasped) so it's at least arguable that contact is what matters.

I can easily see how another referee would have seen it differently and if it had been Neville on Kuyt I would have been screaming for a red. However, I don't think Kuyt's challenge was as clearcut a sending-off as, say, Neville's handball or even Hibbert's foul on Gerrard and I think I've shown why.

[Morph]

I'm telling you the referee could easily have deemed at an attempt at a block (given that he didn't actually go in with his feet but his shins as far as I can see) and since he didn't make contact then you can argue it wasn't dangerous. Apart from handball, intent is irrelevant to the laws of the game these days (something many ex-pro pundits seem not to have grasped) so it's at least arguable that contact is what matters.

I can easily see how another referee would have seen it differently and if it had been Neville on Kuyt I would have been screaming for a red. However, I don't think Kuyt's challenge was as clearcut a sending-off as, say, Neville's handball or even Hibbert's foul on Gerrard and I think I've shown why.

The thing is tho it is as clear cut a red card as the hibbert foul on Gerrard, there's many who have asked why was the hibbert incident was a red and not a yellow, because imo that type of challenge was only deserving of a yellow, but the letter of the law states he gets a red cos he was the last man.

The same applies in the kuyt instance, if the ref is applying the letter of the law then Kuyt is off, because he had two feet off the ground, but obviously the ref didn't apply the letter of the law with this one.

In fact if you look at it that way it helps understand clattenbergs lenient style, he was happy to give a hibbert a yellow and not send him off until 'pressured?', just like he was happy to give kuyt a yellow, but no one really challenged it on the pitch did they, if they had maybe the ref would have changed his view on it.

[Joe King]

I don't get the referee's association and Keith Hackett. He rightly demoted Knob Styles for his decision against Chelsea. Styles had a clear sight, no one blocked his view and made his decision within a blink of the eye, no protests from Chelsea fans or players. Just straight penalty. ****ing disgrace.

Now with Clattenberg, he had difficult views with both Bitter penalties. The first one was six of one, half a dozen of the other. The second, we've seen them given but again they were pulling on each other and again Clattenberg had an unsighted view. No way should he give the decision if he is unsure. I don't want referees to guess the decisions.

The Liverpool penalties were crystal clear- no arguments. All this talk about Gerrard diving is bull****. He felt the tug, he went to ground. He protested the card and rightly the referee should give the red. Andy Gray made out he was a saint as a player until Keys put him on the spot and his Bitter face turned red saying he would have said: 'Last man, where's the red?'

Kuyt's lunge (I refuse to call kung-fu) has been mis-interpreted. Yes, it was dangerous if you ****ing slow it down and show it from different angles. He left the ground, no studs were showing, he completely missed, so the red wasn't given. You can't prove intent so if he didn't make the contact, why should he give the red? Neville wasn't injured.

Now, the FA are trying to say Styles' performance and the Clattenberg performance was the same. No ****ing chance. Styles was poor and always has been poor. He made another shocking decision regarding our Scott Carson giving him a straight red. All we want as fans of the game is a wee bit of consistancy. I'm going to defend Clattenberg, he didn't deserve his demotion.

Just because the match was a high profiled match of the week and the journos from down Saauf said it was a penalty meant that Hackett was under pressure to make a decision and he made the wrong one.

[livvy145]

I've read somewhere that he's been dropped because he's officiating a game in the UEFA Cup on Thursday. Nothing more.

[Neil Young]

The thing is tho it is as clear cut a red card as the hibbert foul on Gerrard, there's many who have asked why was the hibbert incident was a red and not a yellow, because imo that type of challenge was only deserving of a yellow, but the letter of the law states he gets a red cos he was the last man.

The same applies in the kuyt instance, if the ref is applying the letter of the law then Kuyt is off, because he had two feet off the ground, but obviously the ref didn't apply the letter of the law with this one.

In fact if you look at it that way it helps understand clattenbergs lenient style, he was happy to give a hibbert a yellow and not send him off until 'pressured?', just like he was happy to give kuyt a yellow, but no one really challenged it on the pitch did they, if they had maybe the ref would have changed his view on it.

How does the highlighted bit fit with this?

I suppose it would depend on how close he was to the player, if it was close enough to be dangerous then he's off

As Ben and I have pointed out, there wasn't contact so you can't say for sure it was dangerous.

Does anyone know the official reason for why he was booked?

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

I've read somewhere that he's been dropped because he's officiating a game in the UEFA Cup on Thursday. Nothing more.

You won't be seeing that reasoning on Bluekipper.