Kuyt....

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

1 goal from open play this season isn't going to make a title challenge possible let alone winning the thing.

That's the damning stat for me.

[reddragon]

It's a no brainer for me. Did I say I was comparing my tactical skills with that of Rafa's?

And I've seen Kuyt's 'movement' live a few times, it's great...with no end result.

You can defend him all you want and I certainly won't belittle your opinion of the player but I don't rate him.

Listen, you ARE comparing your tactical skills with Rafa when you suggest you would always play Crouch over Kuyt given that Rafa has that option also.

You can attack him all you like, and I'm not belittling your opinion of him, but I think it's unworthy to be making a scapegoat out of one or two players when we've played well and just small details have gone against us.
It pisses me off - we've had it for years - Murphy and Luis spring to mind recently but it's been going on for 30 years or more at the match.

[reddragon]

Irritating that because some of us think Kuyt's a poor striker people jump on our backs claiming that we think we know better than Rafa.

sorry to be irritating but i only 'jumped on your back' because you DID claim you know better than Rafa

[desertscouser]

I've seen Kuyt live loads of times and whilst his movement is decent, its no more than that in my book. However, all that is secondary. 1 goal from open play this season isn't going to make a title challenge possible let alone winning the thing.

That's an incredible statistic.

[EST_1892]

1 goal from open play this season isn't going to make a title challenge possible let alone winning the thing.

Unfortunatley for Kuyt now, it's getting to the stage where the stats matter. I was all optimistic for him when we signed him and I won't forget the effort and excitement when he made his debut. But since his debut, the end result of his efforts have not changed.

Torres and Babel are the forwards we need to go with now to rescue any hope of a title contention. Unless G&H want to splash out on Anelka come January?

[Sir Bob]

That's it though, he's been a poor buy but just because Rafa's a top class manager some people fail to see the possibility that like ALL top class managers they make the occassional mistake in the transfer market. Demento has made several, as has Wenger yet that doesn't make them poor managers. Irritating that because some of us think Kuyt's a poor striker people jump on our backs claiming that we think we know better than Rafa.

Thats it in a nutshell. Kuyt was bought to score and create goals. thats what strikers are paid to do. Kuyt does neither for me. all this stuff about workrate, intelligent runs, creating space for other players is a red herring. Top class players can do all that and still score their fair share of goals.

Kuyt is like a poor man's Teddy Sheringham. He had all the attributes Kuyt has, only difference was that he also provided and created plenty of goals. We need a modern version of Sheringham to partner Torres. The obvious player for me is Berbatov but he's miles out of our reach now. If only that £10m had been spent on him, I believe we'd be smack bang in the title race rather than being 1 more defeat from being 100% out of it.

[MrMichael]

That's it though, he's been a poor buy but just because Rafa's a top class manager some people fail to see the possibility that like ALL top class managers they make the occassional mistake in the transfer market. Demento has made several, as has Wenger yet that doesn't make them poor managers. Irritating that because some of us think Kuyt's a poor striker people jump on our backs claiming that we think we know better than Rafa.

Not something i've ever said. I do think some of the Kuyt-bashing is a little OTT, for example last week when there was a thread made after he only played 10 mins, or today for a while when it seemed to be the only comment some people had on the game. As I said before, I suspect Rafa isn't that pleased with Kuyt's end product in the box this season, and that, if possible, and if substantially better replacements are available, he might look to move him on in the reasonably near future.

But, sometimes you have to work with what you've got, and up to today, Kuyt and Torres have formed a pretty decent partnership in all but the toughest games. Kuyt was certainly worth a risk when we bought him, he had an excellent scoring record, plus he had the character and commitment Rafa wants in a player. In the first few months of his career here we saw enough to suggest that he might well have a good future at the club, and to explain why the money was spent; since then things have simply gone in the wrong direction. Rafa will know that, but Kuyt will continue to play a role in his sides, as another disappointment, Morientes, did before him, until the day he is sold.

[desertscouser]

Listen, you ARE comparing your tactical skills with Rafa when you suggest you would always play Crouch over Kuyt given that Rafa has that option also.

You can attack him all you like, and I'm not belittling your opinion of him, but I think it's unworthy to be making a scapegoat out of one or two players when we've played well and just small details have gone against us.
It pisses me off - we've had it for years - Murphy and Luis spring to mind recently but it's been going on for 30 years or more at the match.

Read my post match comments. I said that both Torres and Kuyt were gash today and they cost us the points. I also said that overall our performance was very encouraging. We are debating Kuyt here so I don't see any problem with what's been posted.

Just for the record, I loved Luis...a true big match player. Always scored the important goals in the big matches. We miss him this season. He's on a different level to Kuyt.

[reddragon]

Not something i've ever said. I do think some of the Kuyt-bashing is a little OTT, for example last week when there was a thread made after he only played 10 mins, or today for a while when it seemed to be the only comment some people had on the game. As I said before, I suspect Rafa isn't that pleased with Kuyt's end product in the box this season, and that, if possible, and if substantially better replacements are available, he might look to move him on in the reasonably near future.

But, sometimes you have to work with what you've got, and up to today, Kuyt and Torres have formed a pretty decent partnership in all but the toughest games. Kuyt was certainly worth a risk when we bought him, he had an excellent scoring record, plus he had the character and commitment Rafa wants in a player. In the first few months of his career here we saw enough to suggest that he might well have a good future at the club, and to explain why the money was spent; since then things have simply gone in the wrong direction. Rafa will know that, but Kuyt will continue to play a role in his sides, as another disappointment, Morientes, did before him, until the day he is sold.

that day will be 1st July 2007 most likely

[desertscouser]

sorry to be irritating but i only 'jumped on your back' because you DID claim you know better than Rafa

Rafa is one of the best managers in the world, I'm a trader in wood pulp and containerboard. Fair to say when it comes to football management he knows far more than I do! But he does make mistakes in the transfer market just as other top managers have done before him. Kuyt's a mistake and his stats this year prove that for me.

Let's agree to disagree on this one but if I was a betting man I'd say that Rafa will lose patience with Kuyt very soon and I would be shocked to see him playing for us come next season.

[reddragon]

Read my post match comments. I said that both Torres and Kuyt were gash today and they cost us the points. I also said that overall our performance was very encouraging. We are debating Kuyt here so I don't see any problem with what's been posted.

Just for the record, I loved Luis...a true big match player. Always scored the important goals in the big matches. We miss him this season. He's on a different level to Kuyt.

I loved Luis too. My beef is the OTT criticism of Kuyt. Now I used to hear Luis get called allsorts on the Kop and it just makes it harder for the players on the pitch to perform. To be fair, i realise we're not at the match now, nd I'm hoping this all doesn't catch on [it's not too bad at the match yet]

[reddragon]

Let's agree to disagree on this one but if I was a betting man I'd say that Rafa will lose patience with Kuyt very soon and I would be shocked to see him playing for us come next season.

on both counts lar

[AFII]

That's it though, he's been a poor buy but just because Rafa's a top class manager some people fail to see the possibility that like ALL top class managers they make the occassional mistake in the transfer market. Demento has made several, as has Wenger yet that doesn't make them poor managers. Irritating that because some of us think Kuyt's a poor striker people jump on our backs claiming that we think we know better than Rafa.

Kuyt was also bought when Rafa didn't have the possibility to sign a player like Torres for £20m. He had to sign a striker for around £10m. You won't get that many better strikers for £10m than Kuyt.

[rage]

kuyt was never worth 10 million. we'll be lucky to get 5 for him. the lad is a joke. I'd really like to sit him down and ask him what the purpose of a football game is. ffs i know its got nothing to do with running around the most but i doubt he does.

we'll never win the league with this donkey anywhere near the team. Mellor was better!

[reddragon]

kuyt was never worth 10 million. we'll be lucky to get 5 for him. the lad is a joke. I'd really like to sit him down and ask him what the purpose of a football game is. ffs i know its got nothing to do with running around the most but i doubt he does.

we'll never win the league with this donkey anywhere near the team. Mellor was better!

WUM