Rafa had on off day?

[AFII]

I'd have no qualms with that at all, it's a fair enough point.

What i would say though, is if you're going to rest key players and replace them with players that are inferior (as you'll invariably be doing), why complicate things even further by selecting a system that the players arent comfortable with or suited to?

Crouch and Voronin in wide forward positions, in a 4-3-3 was nonsensical.

I agree with that 4-3-3 was nonsensical because we don't have players to play that system. 4-2-3-1 is the ideal system if you look at the players we have with a lot of attacking midfielder/second strikers and only one out and out striker in Torres.

Maybe Rafa wanted to test it in a game to see how it will work, who knows?

[disco]

Rafa's comments in the paper back up my analysis of the situation, so I'll take that over DJS's I think.....

[Craig_H]

Rafa's comments in the paper back up my analysis of the situation, so I'll take that over DJS's I think.....

Which comments are those?

Do you expect Rafa to actually admit to the media that he jacked it it?

Do you understand the term 'politically correct rhetoric' ?

Answers on a postcard...

[Craig_H]

I agree with that 4-3-3 was nonsensical because we don't have players to play that system. 4-2-3-1 is the ideal system if you look at the players we have with a lot of attacking midfielder/second strikers and only one out and out striker in Torres.

Maybe Rafa wanted to test it in a game to see how it will work, who knows?

That's what Carling Cup and FA Cup games are for.

[Skillz]

Not really no, they should either say nothing, back him or sack him...playing games and putting out thinly veiled threats is pathetic.

This has nothing to do with the post of mine which you quoted, however...unless you can correct me.

No, I agree with you.

The whole thing has been a disgrace IMO. Unfortunately Rafa is the reason why it has played out in public. I just hope he can recover the situation because I still believe.

I also fear for Rafa Cos Montse will be pissed!!!

[thekop]

Plus it was all the ref's fault anyway

Correct, just like the ref of the Hatton Maywether fight

Absolute ****e

Although, why rafa played with four strikers i'll never know we had no width man still, history now so lets look forward to giving Marseille a right old thumping tommorow night

[Craig_H]

Still not sure how it was the ref's fault really. He fecked up for their peno (wasnt it the linesman that gave it anyway?) but our penalty appeals were both not valid and we didnt help ourselves by playing a dodgy system and giving up with 20 mins left.

[Dhav]

Why is it being considered that we couldnt have won at reading, while also then winning in Marseille?

People are acting as if you had to sacrifice one for the other.

Not at all DJS, no one is acting like that, you are simply choosing to interpret their comments in that way. In spite of Tues being a much bigger game for Rafa than Reading, he still put out all our star players, resting only Hyypia because he cant do three games of this vigour in a week. SO you can't complain on that score. Yes, in hindsgiht he could have picked a formation in tactics that could have given us a greater prospect of winning the game, but that's not to say the tactics he picked fatally harmed our chances of winning, or indeed caused us to lose. If we had simply had the rub of the green on Sat we would have won the game, and been in even better shape going into the game tomorrow than we are now.

[Craig_H]

But it doesnt take a genius to see that Crouch and Voronin were always going to be ineffective playing as a left and right forward.

[Skillz]

Not at all DJS, no one is acting like that, you are simply choosing to interpret their comments in that way. In spite of Tues being a much bigger game for Rafa than Reading, he still put out all our star players, resting only Hyypia because he cant do three games of this vigour in a week. SO you can't complain on that score. Yes, in hindsgiht he could have picked a formation in tactics that could have given us a greater prospect of winning the game, but that's not to say the tactics he picked fatally harmed our chances of winning, or indeed caused us to lose. If we had simply had the rub of the green on Sat we would have won the game, and been in even better shape going into the game tomorrow than we are now.

That's a good post. We did play the same system that we played against Newcastle away. Problem was we had Kewell inside left as opposed to Crouch and that is a big difference.

But for those saying he changed his system he didn't, not for away games anyway.

[Craig_H]

That's a good post. We did play the same system that we played against Newcastle away. Problem was we had Kewell inside left as opposed to Crouch and that is a big difference.

But for those saying he changed his system he didn't, not for away games anyway.

He shouldnt have used that system if Crouch and Voronin were the only options for wide attackers.

[AFII]

Still not sure how it was the ref's fault really. He fecked up for their peno (wasnt it the linesman that gave it anyway?) but our penalty appeals were both not valid and we didnt help ourselves by playing a dodgy system and giving up with 20 mins left.

Both of them are valid, the second one is as clear as you can get.

In the first one the defender hits the ball and take Torres out at the same time.

The second one is from behind and as I said, a clear penalty. No doubt whatsoever. If you think that the second one isn't valid then you are deluded.

http://kop-tv.com/go/media/reading-v...ls-highlights/

[disco]

DJS - I'm sure you like arguing for the sake of it, because I can't even tell what point you're making sometimes

But here goes

Summarising his main points

- played the same system and won comfortably with it before
- had enough chances to win it
- some dodgy decisions didn't help either

In other words, **** happens.

(Incidentally, Torres and Crouch were sharing the left hand side, and more often than not Riise was pushed up to supply the crosses. I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say Crouch was playing as a left winger?!)

Regarding the substitutions and "giving up" (insert lots of smilies here including and ) - he had enough quality on the pitch to win it, and was making an attacking substitution with Babel for Gerrard, we created enough chances AFTER that substitution to have earned a draw - Kewell had 2 shots saved/just wide, Crouch hit the post etc.

I assume your complaint (and anyone else who simplistically says it was 'giving up') is that in an ideal world Torres would have stayed on with a knock, Sissoko would have been taken off instead of Gerrard, and (possibly) Kuyt would come on instead of Hyppia.

Well, FA Cup final 'yes', League fixture half way through the season with huge games coming up 'no'. At 3-1 down, and with 2 big games coming up Rafa made the pragmatic decision.

BIG PICTURE - let's give it some odds, seeing as you're a gambling man. We were something like 20-1 to get a draw after 70 minutes on Saturday. How much difference do you think having Torres, Gerrard and say Kuyt make?! 18-1?! That's a tiny increase. (5% chance to 5.5% chance - a tiny swing)

Now, pretend Torres is out of tomorrow's game, Gerrard picks up a knock or is simply knackered going for the win - our odds might go from 2.0 tomorrow (for a guess, don't have Betfair at work) to 2.2. 50% chance to 45% chance - a huge swing.

If Carra picks up another booking or a knock to the ribs then this affects tomorrow and possibly next Sunday.

Funny thing is, if anything the third goal was a blessing () because at 2-1 I don't think he makes those changes....

[Dhav]

That's a good post. We did play the same system that we played against Newcastle away. Problem was we had Kewell inside left as opposed to Crouch and that is a big difference.

But for those saying he changed his system he didn't, not for away games anyway.

Indeed, it worked effectively against Newcastle, no reason why it shouldn't have on Sat. The players looked out of sorts, but we still could have won the game just as easily as we lost it given the way it went.

He shouldnt have used that system if Crouch and Voronin were the only options for wide attackers.

Dare I say it, but would Kuyt not have been a better option to Crouch and/or Voronin, given how well he was feeding Torres at Newcastle?

[Dhav]

DJS - I'm sure you like arguing for the sake of it, because I can't even tell what point you're making sometimes

But here goes

Summarising his main points

- played the same system and won comfortably with it before
- had enough chances to win it
- some dodgy decisions didn't help either

In other words, **** happens.

(Incidentally, Torres and Crouch were sharing the left hand side, and more often than not Riise was pushed up to supply the crosses. I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say Crouch was playing as a left winger?!)

Regarding the substitutions and "giving up" (insert lots of smilies here including and ) - he had enough quality on the pitch to win it, and was making an attacking substitution with Babel for Gerrard, we created enough chances AFTER that substitution to have earned a draw - Kewell had 2 shots saved/just wide, Crouch hit the post etc.

I assume your complaint (and anyone else who simplistically says it was 'giving up') is that in an ideal world Torres would have stayed on with a knock, Sissoko would have been taken off instead of Gerrard, and (possibly) Kuyt would come on instead of Hyppia.

Well, FA Cup final 'yes', League fixture half way through the season with huge games coming up 'no'. At 3-1 down, and with 2 big games coming up Rafa made the pragmatic decision.

BIG PICTURE - let's give it some odds, seeing as you're a gambling man. We were something like 20-1 to get a draw after 70 minutes on Saturday. How much difference do you think having Torres, Gerrard and say Kuyt make?! 18-1?! That's a tiny increase. (5% chance to 5.5% chance - a tiny swing)

Now, pretend Torres is out of tomorrow's game, Gerrard picks up a knock or is simply knackered going for the win - our odds might go from 2.0 tomorrow (for a guess, don't have Betfair at work) to 2.2. 50% chance to 45% chance - a huge swing.

If Carra picks up another booking or a knock to the ribs then this affects tomorrow and possibly next Sunday.

Funny thing is, if anything the third goal was a blessing () because at 2-1 I don't think he makes those changes....

Wow, what a post. Would like to see DJS try to argue the toss with that one.

Let's hope, that as you allude to above, the **** that happened on Sat (which resulted in Gerrard, Torres, Carra getting a bit of a rest) actually works in our favour tomorrow and Sun, and we get that rub of the green.