Transfer Dealings during the Rafalution

[Guest]

No more than Morientes did.

That was my point.

Fortunately Rafa's bought Torres and Babel.

Well, he certainly offers more than him. Stats won't show you that though. Look at how deep he plays and how deep Voronin plays. Certainly it has to do with how Rafa wants these guys to play.

[Neil Young]

You don't miss a dig, isn't it.

Kuyt and Voronin are both good signings. Don't look at them as individuals, but to what they offer the TEAM.

The problem with Kuyt has been more about our expectations than with what he's actually done. Compare him to how much has been paid for other strikers in the Premiership and I think he doesn't compare at all badly.

Voronin is clearly a good signing. I can't understand why anyone has a problem with him as a squad striker.

[mersey86]

I agree with you for the first part. However to be fair to Kuyt, he certainly has scored more than Morientes.

I agree with all of your statement. I also think that Kuyt's workrate and unselfish running is a big factor in the freedom some of the other players are getting on the field and is tiring the defence enough for Babel to profit when he comes on.

[mersey86]

The problem with Kuyt has been more about our expectations than with what he's actually done. Compare him to how much has been paid for other strikers in the Premiership and I think he doesn't compare at all badly.

Voronin is clearly a good signing. I can't understand why anyone has a problem with him as a squad striker.

I think part of the problem is that we look so much less threatening without Torres. If one of our other strikers plays alongside Torres then they look fine. When we play without Torres, our attack looks relatively insipid.

[DannyMan2006]

I think part of the problem is that we look so much less threatening without Torres. If one of our other strikers plays alongside Torres then they look fine. When we play without Torres, our attack looks relatively insipid.

Bit like Arsenal used to look without Henry, and how Chelsea have looked at times without Drogba.

Any team would miss there number one striker. It's all about resting him in games where we can still get a win without him. Though in an ideal world we will buy another top striker to help lessen the burden.

Nothing wrong with Crouch, Kuyt or Voronin, but they are not in Fernandos class.

[Tatterdemalion]

I remember a very early interview with Rafa when he indicated that he felt it was rather shocking that all (or most) of our sales were at a lower price than the purchase cost of the player. Who knows what will happen with Alonso, Reina etc.. but certainly he seems to be able to get decent money on sales.

I think it is very simple - he gets the best out of players most of the time, which means that their transfer values increase. That means he knows how to play players - often better than they know how to play themselves. I was seldom a Houllier fan and I thank our lucky stars we have replaced him with some-one with some acumen.

[mersey86]

I think it is very simple - he gets the best out of players most of the time, which means that their transfer values increase. That means he knows how to play players - often better than they know how to play themselves.

I think that is a very good point. I remember when Brian Clough was Forest's manager. Many of the players he sold looked half the player elsewhere, including (smirk) Peter Davenport and Gary Birtles to United and (smirk wiped off) Nigel Clough to Liverpool.

[Tatterdemalion]

I think that is a very good point. I remember when Brian Clough was Forest's manager. Many of the players he sold looked half the player elsewhere, including (smirk) Peter Davenport and Gary Birtles to United and (smirk wiped off) Nigel Clough to Liverpool.

I always tell the Peter Davenport story...
It's amazing how many people don't know that story, or rather how quickly he was forgotten..


..or maybe it isn't so amazing!

[rage]

i'd much rather have kept pongolle than bring in voronin and i'd be surprised if he's here in 18 months time.

Kuyt is interesting, he is not a goalscorer - i remember the talk about him and he was touted as a goalscorer and future legend. He does work hard for the team but imo we may as well play another midfielder instead on most occasions.

His best signings without a doubt are alonso and garcia when he first came. Since then Reina, Agger, Masch, Yossi and of course Torres. Babel and Lucas have potential but every other player has been more miss for me.

We've bought too many stop gaps under rafa but it doesn't look half as bad because of how **** houllier was in the transfer market.

[tomasjj]

I don't think there's been much difference between the two myself.

Which disappoints me. I'd have rather Rafa give Morientes more time (another season), instead of signing Voronin and Kuyt, two sideways moves.

Still we Torres now, and soon Babel will be partnering him regularly.

That's progress.

Not a hell of a lot.
Agree on that.

[red g]

i'd much rather have kept pongolle than bring in voronin and i'd be surprised if he's here in 18 months time.

Kuyt is interesting, he is not a goalscorer - i remember the talk about him and he was touted as a goalscorer and future legend. He does work hard for the team but imo we may as well play another midfielder instead on most occasions.

His best signings without a doubt are alonso and garcia when he first came. Since then Reina, Agger, Masch, Yossi and of course Torres. Babel and Lucas have potential but every other player has been more miss for me.

We've bought too many stop gaps under rafa but it doesn't look half as bad because of how **** houllier was in the transfer market.

pongolle wanted more first team action from what i remember and which stop gaps has rafa bought? he has done fantastic with the limited cheque book....this isnt liverpoolski and an endless pot of cash.

Rafa has changed the face of this squad and everywhere u look there is talent , sure the likes of sissoko, riise, pennant and a couple of others need replacing but apart from sissoko at least all the players an string 2 passes together, not something that the team was capable of a couple of years ago.

and i would argue that crouch, arbeola, have been more hit than miss and to call reina, masher and agger potential??, reina is imo the best allround keeper and agger and mascherano would get into any team in the premiership.

[rage]

pongolle wanted more first team action from what i remember and which stop gaps has rafa bought? he has done fantastic with the limited cheque book....this isnt liverpoolski and an endless pot of cash.

Rafa has changed the face of this squad and everywhere u look there is talent , sure the likes of sissoko, riise, pennant and a couple of others need replacing but apart from sissoko at least all the players an string 2 passes together, not something that the team was capable of a couple of years ago.

and i would argue that crouch, arbeola, have been more hit than miss and to call reina, masher and agger potential??, reina is imo the best allround keeper and agger and mascherano would get into any team in the premiership.

i didn't say reina, masch and agger were potential. have a look again at the sentence amigo. arbeloa is a solid utility player nothing more.

crouch is a stop gap else he'd play more.

voronin, pellagrino, nunez, pennant and bellamy were also stop gaps. None of them were first choice buys.

gonzales, josemi, palletta, morientes were all mistakes and were got rid of pretty quickly.

at no point was i having a go at rafa nor mention an endless pot of cash. but i'm not the only fan who believes that in some instances we have bought quantity over quality.

i agree that the squad has improved BUT our most succesful season under rafa was his first where he was successful with a mainly houllier team.

he has bought good players but he has also bought plenty that turned out ****. the main difference between rafa and houllier here is that rafa ships out his bad buys, often at a profit, which is why i think the likes of leto, voronin, pennant, carson, momo and even crouch will all be sold by next summer.

[carheex]

i'd much rather have kept pongolle than bring in voronin and i'd be surprised if he's here in 18 months time.

Kuyt is interesting, he is not a goalscorer - i remember the talk about him and he was touted as a goalscorer and future legend. He does work hard for the team but imo we may as well play another midfielder instead on most occasions.

His best signings without a doubt are alonso and garcia when he first came. Since then Reina, Agger, Masch, Yossi and of course Torres. Babel and Lucas have potential but every other player has been more miss for me.

We've bought too many stop gaps under rafa but it doesn't look half as bad because of how **** houllier was in the transfer market.

I'm not sure Yossi can be classed as a great signing. He's had one or 2 good games but doesn't strike me as anything special.

[rage]

I'm not sure Yossi can be classed as a great signing. He's had one or 2 good games but doesn't strike me as anything special.

i wasn't a fan when we first bought him. but i've warmed to him. he offers something different and whilst no garcia is of value to our sqaud. at least i don't think 'oh no' when i see his name on the teamsheet. i think he'll start on saturday and is a far better option on the right than anything else we have there now.

yes maybe not superb but far better than i expected i think

[Darth Marty]

Quantity over quality was definitely an issue I had in Rafas early days, but with retrospect I can see he was trying to get cover to enable him to use the rotation system he clearly loves.

And lets be fair its worked pretty damn well so far hasnt it?

Since then he has cleared as much **** as he can possibly clear without leaving us short and replaced with quality.

I have no reason to doubt he will continue to do so and as such I feel that in 2-3 years we will have the strongest 2 squads in world football.