Financial situation, doom & gloom reports etc

[MindGuerrillas]

Of course it is, but isn't that a completely different issue?! My point is that the Americans got the job whether anyone likes it or not, and without THEIR money we wouldn't be where we are now, and that's the only solid evidence we've got so far to judge them on, not heresay about how the stadium is screwed and they're about to sack Rafa. Giving them a load of stick now (which reeks of xenophobia by the way) is unfair and misguided

THEIR money? They have not spent any of their own money. They bought the club using a loan and they will be paying for the stadium using a loan. The loans will be repayed by the club's earnings.

We all agreed that we needed investment. So far we have had NO investment. Investment means new money, new capital. What we have now is new owners not investment. All that's changed is the name above the door.

[blacky]

THEIR money? They have not spent any of their own money. They bought the club using a loan and they will be paying for the stadium using a loan. The loans will be repayed by the club's earnings.

We all agreed that we needed investment. So far we have had NO investment. Investment means new money, new capital. What we have now is new owners not investment. All that's changed is the name above the door.

A point which a lot of people have forgotton. A Glazer style refinancing taking place leveraged against the clubs future earnings. This is something H&G promised would not happen!!

[The Preacher]

THEIR money? They have not spent any of their own money. They bought the club using a loan and they will be paying for the stadium using a loan. The loans will be repayed by the club's earnings.

We all agreed that we needed investment. So far we have had NO investment. Investment means new money, new capital. What we have now is new owners not investment. All that's changed is the name above the door.

very few people are rich enough in the world (abramovich - the man city owner Shinawatara - although im not sure that money may be be his!) to spend large sums of money out of their own pockets for things like this.

the money was always going to be borrowed and they fact that they said that the club would not be in debt but their limited company kop football limited would be - just clouded the thinking about this.

I can asure you now that that loan had to guaranteed by a mix of owners' personal assets and our clubs asset base - ie fixed assets, players, future earnings etc. Otherwise banks are not stupid enough to lend millions of pounds of their money to limited companies without securing any collateral. It doesnt happen in the real world.

The club is in debt - always was in debt - and with the american owners always will be in debt.

[Fiddy]

THEIR money? They have not spent any of their own money. They bought the club using a loan and they will be paying for the stadium using a loan. The loans will be repayed by the club's earnings.

We all agreed that we needed investment. So far we have had NO investment. Investment means new money, new capital. What we have now is new owners not investment. All that's changed is the name above the door.

Whatever, it's money THEY'VE BROUGHT to the club, did Moores have the clout to get that kind of finance? Jesus. You're just splitting hairs.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

We only spent £14m and expect to compete with man u, arsenal and chelsea. I'll let you work that one out...

But we are competing with them.

My point still stands.

Or do you think that net spend reflects directly the results on the pitch.

What about Arsene Wenger then?

In terms of net spend he's spent little on his side during his reign yet they won trophies and have been competitive.

[MindGuerrillas]

very few people are rich enough in the world (abramovich - the man city owner Shinawatara - although im not sure that money may be be his!) to spend large sums of money out of their own pockets for things like this.

the money was always going to be borrowed and they fact that they said that the club would not be in debt but their limited company kop football limited would be - just clouded the thinking about this.

I know this and I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong with the way they did the takeover, as you say it was always going to be this way. I was just attempting to point out that people that say it is their money that got us the new players this summer are ill informed. Some on here are talking as though the Americans have come in and splashed money around that has massively changed our financial position. The money spent on players was money that the club already had takeover or not

[The Preacher]

But we are competing with them.

My point still stands.

Or do you think that net spend reflects directly the results on the pitch.

What about Arsene Wenger then?

In terms of net spend he's spent little on his side during his reign yet they won trophies and have been competitive.

arsene wenger didnt inherit a side consisting of diouf, diao and cheyrou and all of those other **** players that rafa did. That's why rafa has had to spend money - because we were ****.

[MindGuerrillas]

Whatever, it's money THEY'VE BROUGHT to the club, did Moores have the clout to get that kind of finance? Jesus. You're just splitting hairs.

We were talking about players that came in in the summer. No american money went to pay for those. They were self financed by the club. Your statement that without the Americans we wouldn't have got them is wrong.

As for the stadium, well we don't have one yet. They don't even have the finance for it sorted yet.

[The Preacher]

I know this and I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong with the way they did the takeover, as you say it was always going to be this way. I was just attempting to point out that people that say it is their money that got us the new players this summer are ill informed. Some on here are talking as though the Americans have come in and splashed money around that has massively changed our financial position. The money spent on players was money that the club already had takeover or not

i wasnt having a go at you mate - but i agree with you that some people here are naive about the nature of financing deals of this size. The owners might have spent some of their own money on the takeover of the club but since then the money going into players etc has come out of third party finance or from club profits

This situation could get much worse because imagine how property investors manage to buy 20 - 30 properties. They do so by leveraging the equity in each property to finance the other and I hope the american owners dont use the equity increases in Liverpool FC as security to finance their other aquisitions.

This is a very real possibility and happens all the time in corporate business.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

arsene wenger didnt inherit a side consisting of diouf, diao and cheyrou and all of those other **** players that rafa did. That's why rafa has had to spend money - because we were ****.

But he's made us competitive by not spending a lot in terms of net spend.

So I don't see your point.

Why not celebrate the fact that we have a manager who can build a quality side without spending fortunes?

Admit it, you wanted these Americans to come in a spend like Abramovich and buy us the league.

Either that or you're bored and you just want something to moan about, just like I did with the Reading game and Rafa last week.

[MindGuerrillas]

i wasnt having a go at you mate - but i agree with you that some people here are naive about the nature of financing deals of this size. The owners might have spent some of their own money on the takeover of the club but since then the money going into players etc has come out of third party finance or from club profits

This situation could get much worse because imagine how property investors manage to buy 20 - 30 properties. They do so by leveraging the equity in each property to finance the other and I hope the american owners dont use the equity increases in Liverpool FC as security to finance their other aquisitions.

This is a very real possibility and happens all the time in corporate business.

[MindGuerrillas]

But he's made us competitive by not spending a lot in terms of net spend.

So I don't see your point.

Why not celebrate the fact that we have a manager who can build a quality side without spending fortunes?

Admit it, you wanted these Americans to come in a spend like Abramovich and buy us the league.

Either that or you're bored and you just want something to moan about, just like I did with the Reading game and Rafa last week.

I don't think that people (myself anyway) are moaning about the Americans spending too little. As you say we've spent enough this year to make us significantly better on the pitch. The main complaint on this issue is not about the Americans and how much they've spent but about people on here that are making claims that they have spent massive amounts, saying that it was far more than would have been possible without the takeover. I think it's this misconception that is causing the arguments rather than the amount of money we've actually spent.

[The Preacher]

But he's made us competitive by not spending a lot in terms of net spend.

So I don't see your point.

Why not celebrate the fact that we have a manager who can build a quality side without spending fortunes?

Admit it, you wanted these Americans to come in a spend like Abramovich and buy us the league.

Either that or you're bored and you just want something to moan about, just like I did with the Reading game and Rafa last week.

Hey look - this is not about arguing for the sake of arguing. You are a very respected poster and im not jesting. My point is that I was very cautious about the americans from day one because i didnt believe they were going to do what they proclaimed.

I run 3 businesses, consult on several others and used to work in marketing so I have heard all the bull**** marketing / business spiels that there are. Hell, I have given loads so its easy to tell when someone's bull****ting.

I really believe that moores was advised into selling to G+T by Parry and his lack of vision is seriously beginning to affect the future prospects of this club. I make no secrets about the fact that DIC would have been better for us - 7 year exit strategy or not.

Rafa is a great manager but he is working with his hands tied behind his back. We have only spend £14m this summer compared to man u's (£60mm+ inlcuding the £7m for heize).

That's a massive difference and you are right that we are doing really well. But how about backing the guy who has brought you club this success on a shoestring budget (relatively speaking). The owners should realise that when they say we want to win - winning comes at a cost - and they should finance that cost.

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Hey look - this is not about arguing for the sake of arguing. You are a very respected poster and im not jesting. My point is that I was very cautious about the americans from day one because i didnt believe they were going to do what they proclaimed.

I run 3 businesses, consult on several others and used to work in marketing so I have heard all the bull**** marketing / business spiels that there are. Hell, I have given loads so its easy to tell when someone's bull****ting.

I really believe that moores was advised into selling to G+T by Parry and his lack of vision is seriously beginning to affect the future prospects of this club. I make no secrets about the fact that DIC would have been better for us - 7 year exit strategy or not.

Rafa is a great manager but he is working with his hands tied behind his back. We have only spend £14m this summer compared to man u's (£60mm+ inlcuding the £7m for heize).

That's a massive difference and you are right that we are doing really well. But how about backing the guy who has brought you club this success on a shoestring budget (relatively speaking). The owners should realise that when they say we want to win - winning comes at a cost - and they should finance that cost.

My point still stands though, it's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it.

I really don't believe in spending for spending's sake. Look at Chelsea with Shevchenko. I prefer the way we do things right now, we can buy a big money player, if that player is the right player like Torres.

Fair enough you have your own gut instinct - based on your own business experience - about DIC and Parry, but either way it's still speculation.

Enjoy the game tomorrow mate.

[Radar]

Gillette just bought majority ownership in a NASCAR team...He has plenty of money