Financial situation, doom & gloom reports etc

[kurtangle01]

you took a fixed rate???? i hope for your sake it was a long time ago because if you have any financial savvy youll know serial interest rate reductions are a certainty.

when you borrow the kind of cash these boys borrowed, you cant get a 6% fixed rate from the abbey mate - different rules apply - but i think you take my point that responsible managed debt is not a negative, yes?




well maybe you mix with some seriously forward seeing types mate but i can assure you that in feb/march. the majority of financial experts on both sides of the atlantic were NOT predicting the kind of financial chaos that followed the sub-prime crash in the USA. go back to the broadsheet financial pages if you need proof. the bank of england bail-out is virtually unprecedented as is the collapse of one of the UK's major mortgage lenders. The city's very best investors didnt have that one pegged in march.

in short i completely refute this point



twisted view: they are undergoing a forced refinancing in the new macroeconomic environment. they have no choice about this. sorry you dont like it. what do you think they should do now instead?



more than happy to



this is correct. you take this a terrible calculated lie? i dont i take it as statement made in good faith. econioc circumstances have changed....rethink necessary. well see who is right



these boys' couldnt get that 25 year 6% fixed rate with northern rock that you took out. their interest rates have gone up - what are they gonna do? something sensible i hope. if thats a manageable debt secured on the club (like a few other clubs you ought to know about) then its not a case of "loss of the club"



not quite sure this is a fact. as i understand it the board consists of american reps and parry. are you saying parry is resisting it vigorously? as for moores - his level of understanding of the current global money markets is on a level with my 4 year old chil...scratch that, my lad knows what the FTSE 100 is already.



On this i agree with you. this was an extreme peice of poor judgement but i suspect the yanks reckon they HAVEsplashed the cash in underwriting the stadium



again, i dont except this as public domain fact. bottom line is torres is the most expensive player lfc have ever signed. its not really a good time to be putting your head in the oven - that was the day we signed eric meijer



youre simply not accurate re the transfer budget. (charity bet offer still stand btw) if you want a public domain fact about this point check parry's interview on the bbc sport website. raffa slapped down??? if you like.....there was a semi public difference of opinion/misunderstanding for sure



have a look at the graphs of world raw metal prices. they are actually plateauing to a large extent since the spring. all projects of this size overspend



you have the right to hold this opinion. i disagree and feel its not consistent with the facts



again you take these rumours/facts as you will. if refa benitez phoned me up and swore on his bible each of those 2 things were true then i wouldnt regard it as "loss of the club" and i would just smile and drive to anfield tomorrow as normal



nope

melodramatic is just about spot on as a description of your threads of the last 2 days

no personal offense intended

Spot on, mate.

I considered doing a response like this but was worried that tom would take it the wrong way again and accuse people of criticising him.

You put far more eloquently than I could anyway.

Agree with everything you just said.

[bazza76]

you took a fixed rate???? i hope for your sake it was a long time ago because if you have any financial savvy youll know serial interest rate reductions are a certainty.

when you borrow the kind of cash these boys borrowed, you cant get a 6% fixed rate from the abbey mate - different rules apply - but i think you take my point that responsible managed debt is not a negative, yes?




well maybe you mix with some seriously forward seeing types mate but i can assure you that in feb/march. the majority of financial experts on both sides of the atlantic were NOT predicting the kind of financial chaos that followed the sub-prime crash in the USA. go back to the broadsheet financial pages if you need proof. the bank of england bail-out is virtually unprecedented as is the collapse of one of the UK's major mortgage lenders. The city's very best investors didnt have that one pegged in march.

in short i completely refute this point



twisted view: they are undergoing a forced refinancing in the new macroeconomic environment. they have no choice about this. sorry you dont like it. what do you think they should do now instead?



more than happy to



this is correct. you take this a terrible calculated lie? i dont i take it as statement made in good faith. econioc circumstances have changed....rethink necessary. well see who is right



these boys' couldnt get that 25 year 6% fixed rate with northern rock that you took out. their interest rates have gone up - what are they gonna do? something sensible i hope. if thats a manageable debt secured on the club (like a few other clubs you ought to know about) then its not a case of "loss of the club"



not quite sure this is a fact. as i understand it the board consists of american reps and parry. are you saying parry is resisting it vigorously? as for moores - his level of understanding of the current global money markets is on a level with my 4 year old chil...scratch that, my lad knows what the FTSE 100 is already.



On this i agree with you. this was an extreme peice of poor judgement but i suspect the yanks reckon they HAVEsplashed the cash in underwriting the stadium



again, i dont except this as public domain fact. bottom line is torres is the most expensive player lfc have ever signed. its not really a good time to be putting your head in the oven - that was the day we signed eric meijer



youre simply not accurate re the transfer budget. (charity bet offer still stand btw) if you want a public domain fact about this point check parry's interview on the bbc sport website. raffa slapped down??? if you like.....there was a semi public difference of opinion/misunderstanding for sure



have a look at the graphs of world raw metal prices. they are actually plateauing to a large extent since the spring. all projects of this size overspend



you have the right to hold this opinion. i disagree and feel its not consistent with the facts



again you take these rumours/facts as you will. if refa benitez phoned me up and swore on his bible each of those 2 things were true then i wouldnt regard it as "loss of the club" and i would just smile and drive to anfield tomorrow as normal



nope

melodramatic is just about spot on as a description of your threads of the last 2 days

no personal offense intended

Top post mate.
There is no way everyone would have known what was going to happen with the credit situation, otherwise the stockmarket would have went haywire with the volume of people trying to conduct business to protect themselves.
Your post is very well written and makes alot of sense.
Some people can decide, we were promised this and we are not getting this, but there is a certain amount of understanding we have to have not just as LFC fans.

[bazza76]

PS.
Particularly liked your comment on "Refa"
That should be his new name.

[enema of the state]

PS.
Particularly liked your comment on "Refa"
That should be his new name.

lol

took ages to type it and the wife was giving me the evil eye...i didnt have the bottle to go back and change the typos

[bazza76]

lol

took ages to type it and the wife was giving me the evil eye...i didnt have the bottle to go back and change the typos

but you could reply to this post

[Tom]

you took a fixed rate???? i hope for your sake it was a long time ago because if you have any financial savvy youll know serial interest rate reductions are a certainty.

when you borrow the kind of cash these boys borrowed, you cant get a 6% fixed rate from the abbey mate - different rules apply - but i think you take my point that responsible managed debt is not a negative, yes?

Yes, I take the point. I happen to disagree with you that we're dealing with responsible people. My evidence for this is that they were highly irresponsible to make promises about the debt that they couldn't keep. An extremly serious matter seeing as this was a major selling point in their bid.

They've also made very public promises about a stadium that they couldn't keep. There's more reversing going on here than in an Italian tank regiment.


Gillette has already been bankrupted once in his business career. Hicks is a necon corporate raider who likens liverpool fc to weetabix, something to be leveraged for maxiumum profit. Do you seriously think these types of people should own our club?

well maybe you mix with some seriously forward seeing types mate but i can assure you that in feb/march. the majority of financial experts on both sides of the atlantic were NOT predicting the kind of financial chaos that followed the sub-prime crash in the USA. go back to the broadsheet financial pages if you need proof. the bank of england bail-out is virtually unprecedented as is the collapse of one of the UK's major mortgage lenders. The city's very best investors didnt have that one pegged in march.

The american sub-prime market went tits up a year ago. This is practically the only conversation I was allowed to have with my american relatives when I was over there last january. Everyone and their aunt has been predicting financial doom since then.

these boys' couldnt get that 25 year 6% fixed rate with northern rock that you took out. their interest rates have gone up - what are they gonna do? something sensible i hope. if thats a manageable debt secured on the club (like a few other clubs you ought to know about) then its not a case of "loss of the club"

Very droll.

not quite sure this is a fact. as i understand it the board consists of american reps and parry. are you saying parry is resisting it vigorously? as for moores - his level of understanding of the current global money markets is on a level with my 4 year old chil...scratch that, my lad knows what the FTSE 100 is already.

The board consists of the 2 sons, parry and moores.

On this i agree with you. this was an extreme peice of poor judgement but i suspect the yanks reckon they HAVEsplashed the cash in underwriting the stadium

But they are now transferring that loan onto the clubs books. All they've done is drum up a loan and in the short term covered it.

again, i dont except this as public domain fact. bottom line is torres is the most expensive player lfc have ever signed. its not really a good time to be putting your head in the oven - that was the day we signed eric meijer

Telegraph is normally pretty accurate. We'll have to agree to differ.

youre simply not accurate re the transfer budget. (charity bet offer still stand btw) if you want a public domain fact about this point check parry's interview on the bbc sport website. raffa slapped down??? if you like.....there was a semi public difference of opinion/misunderstanding for sure

It was the owners who slapped Rafa down not parry. Vague promises about doing business in the transfer window don't exactly fill me with confidence - if we buy we'll have to sell to cover it. We still have the 5 million we didn't spend on heinze that will go in the pot too. We wont be buying snoogy doogy.

did you see rafa's interview after he chelsea game? He was asked about transfer budget and he replied there was no money.

have a look at the graphs of world raw metal prices. they are actually plateauing to a large extent since the spring. all projects of this size overspend

so why did parry today say that it was the increasing cost of materials that was forcing the re-think on the stadium?

again you take these rumours/facts as you will. if refa benitez phoned me up and swore on his bible each of those 2 things were true then i wouldnt regard it as "loss of the club" and i would just smile and drive to anfield tomorrow as normal

They happen to be from people who I trust implicitly and are not prone to melodrama...

[kurtangle01]

did you see rafa's interview after he chelsea game? He was asked about transfer budget and he replied there was no money.

But then Parry was quoted today as saying that we would be active in January so...

I'm also sure I read in the Telegraph a week or two ago that Hicks and Gillett had secured financing for the Stadium. That was obviously false so if they got that wrong in theory they could have this wrong.

[enema of the state]

but you could reply to this post

amazing how i can turn her mood around in those 15 mins

[sonsofthedesert]

Enema, good post mate.

[bazza76]

But then Parry was quoted today as saying that we would be active in January so...

I'm also sure I read in the Telegraph a week or two ago that Hicks and Gillett had secured financing for the Stadium. That was obviously false so if they got that wrong in theory they could have this wrong.

The papers are always off on what they say when it comes to football related issues, such is the speed at which things happen and also the reliability of their sources.
I have read many stories, particularly on here saying that the end is nigh, it is all downhill, no money for players, Rafa is being sacked, all of it was bollocks, that leaves, one thing, the stadium, which, IMO when it is being talked about the yanks being naive, it certainly would be naive of them now, not to consider other options, and that includes changing the design and looking at others ways of gaining finance.
When it comes to the Yanks "issues" with Rafa, IMO they were quite right to be pissed off, and that is all it was, I would be too if I were them and Rafa was going public on every dissagereement and using the treat of other clubs to get what he wanted. Having said this, I do understand and share Rafa's frustrations, he just went about dealing with it in the wrong manner.

[enema of the state]

well if the world and his wife was predicting financial doom and gloom, too bad it didnt filter through in march to the experts at the bank of england, northern rock, HBOS, RBS or HSBC, nor to the crowd of 250 people standing outside of my local NR branch back in september wanting their money out!

the consequences of the sub-prime collapse are well beyond what any experts were forcasting back at the time of the takeover. in fact, its doubful if the full extent is predictable even now.

who are your relatives tom, the buffet's of iowa?

[kurtangle01]

The papers are always off on what they say when it comes to football related issues, such is the speed at which things happen and also the reliability of their sources.
I have read many stories, particularly on here saying that the end is nigh, it is all downhill, no money for players.

I've just seen Rick Parry interviewed on SSN and he said'We'll be as active in the transfer market as we've ever been if not more so. We're not about to go telling everyone in the public domain what our plans are though. Winning is what this club is all about and if the squad needs strengthening we'll do it. No question.

Perhaps he was lying?

[bazza76]

I've just seen Rick Parry interviewed on SSN and he said'We'll be as active in the transfer market as we've ever been if not more so. We're not about to go telling everyone in the public domain what our plans are though. Winning is what this club is all about and if the squad needs strengthening we'll do it. No question.

Perhaps he was lying?

smoke screen

[AFII]

I've just seen Rick Parry interviewed on SSN and he said'We'll be as active in the transfer market as we've ever been if not more so. We're not about to go telling everyone in the public domain what our plans are though. Winning is what this club is all about and if the squad needs strengthening we'll do it. No question.

Perhaps he was lying?

Parry is only a puppet now, he will tell the media what G&H have told him to say.

Who knows if it's true or not, G&H have lied before. Time will tell but they just as anyone else will have to earn our love and trust.

[kurtangle01]

Parry is only a puppet now, he will tell the media what G&H have told him to say.

Who knows if it's true or not, G&H have lied before. Time will tell but they just as anyone else will have to earn our love and trust.

So he was lying then?

Oh dear...