Mascherano and Gerrard

[AFII]

Well, what would you do if you was in Rafa's situation? He want to sign Masch and £17m shouldn't be a problem for a club that have ambitions to win the title.

I would be furious if we Rafa isn't allowed to sign Masch. That would show that G&H don't have any ambitions to win the title until the new stadium is finished.

Would Rafa then stay with a club that have the ambition to get a top four place and not challenge for the title?

If we want to challenge for the title then Rafa must be able to sign two, three expensive players(£15m+) every year.

The other teams are getting better and we can't stand still and watch on.

[Fan65]

It would be foolish of us to sell Xabi

Masher was brilliant today probably the most influence he's had for us in a game.

He wanted the ball all the time sprayed the balls all over the place and tracked back alway. Great engine on him and 17 million is a steal for a world class player

Yesterdays game suited Masher, they played at home for a draw , very disappointing/flattering. Because of the defensive line up they worked to Masher had plenty of opportunities to get amongst them an move forward.
Alonso would also have had that opportunity and would have done as well.

I don't think it's which two of five he picks but it's who's trained well and who the opposition is.

For me Gerrard , Alonso and Masher are established 1st teamers, Lucas is the young pretender with bags of promise but Sissoko is slipping down the pecking order as his early promise is evaporating. And don't forget young Guthrie out on loan and doing well.

[Neil Young]

How many games do we win when Mascherano and Gerrard play together as a central midfield pairing?

[Red_Al_77]

How many games do we win when Mascherano and Gerrard play together as a central midfield pairing?

43.75% won - of games they have been paired in CM this season.
31.25% have been drawn
25% lost

Compared to a seasons average for the team of:
56.7% W
26.7% D
16.7% L

[AFII]

43.75% won - of games they have been paired in CM this season.
31.25% have been drawn
25% lost

Compared to a seasons average for the team of:
56.7% W
26.7% D
16.7% L

Do the seasons average for the team include the games Gerrard and Mascherano played together?

[sonsofthedesert]

Do the seasons average for the team include the games Gerrard and Mascherano played together?

Think you will find that to be the season average it has to include those games.

[sonsofthedesert]

43.75% won - of games they have been paired in CM this season.
31.25% have been drawn
25% lost

Compared to a seasons average for the team of:
56.7% W
26.7% D
16.7% L

Thanks stato, do you have numbers of games for that as well so it can mean something to me?

[AFII]

Think you will find that to be the season average it has to include those games.

Well, that would make that stats very pointless if you want to compare that with the games Mascherano and Gerrard played in.

[Red_Al_77]

Do the seasons average for the team include the games Gerrard and Mascherano played together?

Yes.

When we haven't played that centre pairing the stats are

71.4% W
21.4% D
7.2% L

Thus based on mere stats alone we are better off with SG and Masher not playing together in CM, but that doesn't really tell the full story to be honest. Until we can compare say Alonso and SG against Masher and SG over a full season then we can have meaningful %. However Rafa is a horses for courses person and will pick a team to beat the opposition based on how he thinks they will line up. He doesn't automatically pick his best XI which means stats are pretty useless

[Red_Al_77]

Thanks stato, do you have numbers of games for that as well so it can mean something to me?

43.75% won - of games they have been paired in CM this season. 7 GAMES
31.25% have been drawn 5 GAMES
25% lost 4 GAMES

Compared to a seasons average for the team of:
56.7% W 17 GAMES
26.7% D 8 GAMES
16.7% L 5 GAMES

[FatTony]

It doesn't matter who plays in the middle, without a world class winger and a decent partner for Torres we won't be challenging for the league.

As many signings as we've made, we're still 2 or 3 more match winners short of a championship winning side.

Personally, I'd be thinking of a clear out for next season. We've brought in some new blood and now its time to get shot of those that are clearly never going to improve or are passed their best. Kewell, Riise, Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt, Hyypia, and Momo should be sold. Voronin may be worth keeping as a squad player, but I think he's probably the only player there that would be happy enough to sit on the bench, but I'd rather it be a young and hungry striker on the bench.

[Neil Young]

Thanks Al. Perhaps we can assume that Rafa may pick Gerrard and Mascherano together for harder games, hence the lower average. All the same, it does suggest that the two may not be the most effective partnership in terms of the balance of the team as a whole, which I admit is what I was thinking.

Of course it's possible to see this as an indictment of our more forward players (wide and central) in that playing Gerrard in his "preferred position" ends up weakening the team. However, I just get this nagging sensation that when Gerrard is alongside Mascherano he ends up looking like he does beside Barry or Hargreaves or even Lampard for England. In other words, he's nowhere near so much of a threat.

Also, Mascherano seems to me to give the ball away a lot more than say Hamann used to or Alonso does. I have no stats to back that up - I just recall a couple of incidents in recent games.

[FatTony]

Also, Mascherano seems to me to give the ball away a lot more than say Hamann used to or Alonso does. I have no stats to back that up - I just recall a couple of incidents in recent games.

Agreed, Alonso's defensive play is not a patch on Mascher, but he retains the ball well and more importantly his distribution is superb. Gerrard is far more effective playing alongside Alonso.

[Owen20]

The present and future of our midfield.

Sorry Xabi.

ooooo controversial.

IF we keep him (Masher, obviously)....

Here's hoping.

We'd be ****in MAD to let him go!!!

[Howard_lfc]

Agreed, Alonso's defensive play is not a patch on Mascher, but he retains the ball well and more importantly his distribution is superb. Gerrard is far more effective playing alongside Alonso.

Well said mate.