Xabi Alonso - the enigma

[CAD]

For me people are too eager to scapegoat individual players. In particular I think Alonso is being picked out here for no good reason. If anything our central midfielders are our strength. The criticism here is largely picking fault for the sake of it in my eyes. You need a variety of options in central midfield as a top team and Xabi is an outstanding option to have.

In my humble opinion that is a LFC foray myth.The delusional "we have the best midfield in the world" song doesn't help much either...

Our midfield simply doesn't score enough and they havn't for way too long. The same goes for all our wingers of course. (Minus SG of course).

[dww]

In my humble opinion that is a LFC foray myth.The delusional "we have the best midfield in the world" song doesn't help much either...

Our midfield simply doesn't score enough and they havn't for way too long. The same goes for all our wingers of course. (Minus SG of course).

I simply don't believe that they have to (and why take out SG - is it just to make a point?). Which of Anderson, Hargreaves or Carrick score loads of goals? Do Silva, Flamini or Diarra for Arsenal? Obviously you have to balance your side overall and I believe in general we don't spread out the creative or attacking duties enough in our squad we rely too often on the central midfielders to do too much which is what I think is the problem.

Including Fabregas and Gerrard which seems only fair IMO the top four teams central midfielders have scored (according to the premierleague fantasy football doodad - players considered CMs in brackets):

Liverpool (Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascher, Lucas): 10
Arsenal (Flamini, Silva, Fabregas, Diarra): 9
United (Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Hargreaves): 1
Chelsea (Lampard, Essien, Ballack, Mikel, Sidwell, Makelele): 10

[NICKZS]

I simply don't believe that they have to (and why take out SG - is it just to make a point?). Which of Anderson, Hargreaves or Carrick score loads of goals? Do Silva, Flamini or Diarra for Arsenal? Obviously you have to balance your side overall and I believe in general we don't spread out the creative or attacking duties enough in our squad we rely too often on the central midfielders to do too much which is what I think is the problem.

Including Fabregas and Gerrard which seems only fair IMO the top four teams central midfielders have scored (according to the premierleague fantasy football doodad - players considered CMs in brackets):

Liverpool (Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascher, Lucas): 10
Arsenal (Flamini, Silva, Fabregas, Diarra): 9
United (Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Hargreaves): 1
Chelsea (Lampard, Essien, Ballack, Mikel, Sidwell, Makelele): 10

Thank you, and good night.

Good post man

[paulcooper4]

And Stelios, who was being kept out of the Bolton team by one Danny Guthrie.

both good players

Stelios the better winger (sticks to the touchline) and goalscorer, and danny the better technician.

[paulcooper4]

Xabi is ****in boss.

[Howard_lfc]

For me people are too eager to scapegoat individual players. In particular I think Alonso is being picked out here for no good reason. If anything our central midfielders are our strength. The criticism here is largely picking fault for the sake of it in my eyes. You need a variety of options in central midfield as a top team and Xabi is an outstanding option to have.

[Guest]

It's a lot more simple than you suggest.

If takes a 5-man midfield, or a 4-man midfield with a forward dropping deep to limit Alonso's game.

Of course there are compromises involved when a team is set-up to nullify a particular threat but the point is that there are players who have qualities that are impossible or extremely difficult to temper. Alonso is not one of them. And for that reason, I question his value to our team.

Or can you provide a more convincing argument to explain his long-term loss of form?

We need more options, that's all. In that sense, teams won't focus on one player alone. The more variety and players who could do 'harm' the better.

Surely, our defenders, as well as having excellent defending skills, can start moves from defense, instead of hoofing it up. This will decrease chances of teams nullifying our passing game and our deep lying midfielder to be the fulcrum of our passing game.

I have watched United, and the way they play is simple really. They are the most direct team around. Their passing cuts teams apart and it's all about their players knowing exactly what to do in specific patterns during the game.

Their 3rd goal on Saturday, stemmed from a simple one touch move with no fuss. As soon as Newcastle lost the ball, Ronaldo was on his way, Carrick laying the ball to Tevez who exactly knew what Ronaldo was doing.

[Helios Creed]

He was bought after Gerrard committed himself to the club so that doesn't hold any water.

I meant that Rafa wanted to sell him (as with Owen), not that Stevie wanted to leave. And the following season, he almost succeeded when SG almost left as he felt that his manager didn't want him.

[JohnDoe]

I meant that Rafa wanted to sell him (as with Owen), not that Stevie wanted to leave. And the following season, he almost succeeded when SG almost left as he felt that his manager didn't want him.

You're rewriting history there. Rafa never wanted to sell Gerrard, Gerrard got pissed off because Parry ****ed off to his holiday and didn't bother to sort out a new contract for about a month after the CL final. That made Gerrard feel unwanted. Rafa has always wanted Gerrard to stay, it was Gerrard in both the summers of 2004 and 2005 who has asked to leave/wanted out. There are direct quotes from Gerrard who back it up.

[Helios Creed]

You're rewriting history there. Rafa never wanted to sell Gerrard, Gerrard got pissed off because Parry ****ed off to his holiday and didn't bother to sort out a new contract for about a month after the CL final. That made Gerrard feel unwanted. Rafa has always wanted Gerrard to stay, it was Gerrard in both the summers of 2004 and 2005 who has asked to leave/wanted out. There are direct quotes from Gerrard who back it up.

Obviously this is speculation.... I found SG's book very vague about the whole thing. I think you have to ask why he wanted to leave in both 2004 and 2005. Maybe because the new manager's first move had been to bring in a player who apparently replaced him as the dominant player on the pitch and later pushed him out to RM? Parry's actions just seemed to confirm his fears in 2005. I also think Rafa was looking forward to spending the money his sale brought in.

[CAD]

Liverpool (Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascher, Lucas): 10
Arsenal (Flamini, Silva, Fabregas, Diarra): 9
United (Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Hargreaves): 1
Chelsea (Lampard, Essien, Ballack, Mikel, Sidwell, Makelele): 10

Look at wingers as well. I did mention that in my post.

Goals in the PL:

Arsenal - have Helb, Rosicky and Van Persie. They have clocked in about 43 goals in the PL where about 26 has come from other than their strikers.

United - have a winger called Ronaldo who has scored 16 alone which make it rather hard to compare any notes. 22 goals from other than strikers.

Chelsea - 25 goals from other than midfield. Their strikers has failed them in the PL this season.

Liverpool - 16 goals from other than strikers.

You see anykind of pattern here?

[dww]

Look at wingers as well. I did mention that in my post.

Goals in the PL:

Arsenal - have Helb, Rosicky and Van Persie. They have clocked in about 43 goals in the PL where about 26 has come from other than their strikers.

United - have a winger called Ronaldo who has scored 16 alone which make it rather hard to compare any notes. 22 goals from other than strikers.

Chelsea - 25 goals from other than midfield. Their strikers has failed them in the PL this season.

Liverpool - 16 goals from other than strikers.

You see anykind of pattern here?

Yes, and I agree with that point but you were responding to my point which was specifically about central midfield.

I have always maintained that we need four goal threats on the pitch at once and that we regularly only put out two. However I don't believe that the goal threat has to come from central midfield but should be largely the responcibility of an attacking quartet.

The only reason to want more goal threat from central midfield would be if we were to want to stretch a team with two wingers who offer little direct goal threat (say Pennant and Kewell - on current form).

[CAD]

Yes, and I agree with that point but you were responding to my point which was specifically about central midfield.

I have always maintained that we need four goal threats on the pitch at once and that we regularly only put out two. However I don't believe that the goal threat has to come from central midfield but should be largely the responcibility of an attacking quartet.

The only reason to want more goal threat from central midfield would be if we were to want to stretch a team with two wingers who offer little direct goal threat (say Pennant and Kewell - on current form).

If you take out Gerrard our CM has clocked in 3 goals. The wingers have managed 5 goals. That is simply outrages.

We badly need players like Hleb and Rosicky etc.

It is unfathomable that we only get 8 goals from wingers and CM (excluding SG) in 20 games.

It probably get's even worse if you look at assists from our CM compared to the other top teams.

[CAD]

The only reason to want more goal threat from central midfield would be if we were to want to stretch a team with two wingers who offer little direct goal threat (say Pennant and Kewell - on current form).

I think it would be fair to say that we would want that then

[Jazzmaster]

I'm really concerned about Alonso.

It took him a matter of months to become my favourite player - hence the username - and it appeared we had a Rolls Royce of a midfielder on our hands.

But it's not just not quite happened for him, has it?

If I'm being really honest with myself, I expected so much more. He's been here now for three or four seasons and I don't believe he's developed as much as he ought to have. He should be one of the league's very top midfielders. The fact of the matter is, if you ask a random group of football fans (non LFC) to name their ten best midfielders in the league, precious few, if any, would name Xabi.

Have other teams sussed him out? Given time and space Alonso can kill teams and initially he capitalised on the space afforded to him. Remember the Spurs and Norwich games at Anfield?

That was about as good as it got for Xabi. Sure, there's been plenty of other very good performances (Juventus away springs to mind) but on the whole I'm underwhelmed - and it hurts to say that.

It's too easy to nullify Xabi.

He cuts a frustrated figure at the moment and it's sad to see. In his defence he's just returned from a long-ish lay-off, but let's be honest...he's been miles below-par for too long.

I'm one of his biggest fans but I have to ask - how much longer do we tolerate this sort of under-achievement from one of our most gifted footballers?

We clearly need a new manager. Same could be said of so many footballers ar our club at the moment. mean kuyt and veronin look like they have never played football before in their lives, sissoko is a shadow of what he was, crouch isnt getting played, finnan and arbeloa are disimproving....

It pains me to say all this, but its true nonetheless.